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Minneapolis - Measure To Put Replacing Police On November Ballot

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    I have a feeling that if any community successfully replace police officers with social workers that the result will be a lot of dead social workers.
    I agree. I am morbidly interested to see what the reaction will be when one or more social workers are killed in the line of duty.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

      Do they have the same laws as San Francisco where's it's basically legal to steal whatever you want as long it's less than $1000?
      Apparently there is now talk of treating these shop lifters as part of organized crime.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

        I agree. I am morbidly interested to see what the reaction will be when one or more social workers are killed in the line of duty.
        I'll predict that it'll be something along the lines of why weren't the police there protecting him/her?

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

          I agree. I am morbidly interested to see what the reaction will be when one or more social workers are killed in the line of duty.
          "We need federal law enforcement to protect our social workers!"

          Hello police state.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            The problem often is that when the police get there it is hardly the time or place to attempt a diagnoses for why that armed assailant is behaving in that manner.
            True, but if we did more to help people with mental health issues, we could prevent a lot of people from getting to this point in the first place.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              Do they have the same laws as San Francisco where's it's basically legal to steal whatever you want as long it's less than $1000?
              That's what's fueling this, yes - and since the powers that be see no problem with the $1,000 limit, who's really going to stop a bunch of thugs and do inventory to see if it's not more like $2,000?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                They have NO concept of the danger of an officer approaching a "domestic dispute" -- in most jurisdictions, officers are not allowed to go in alone because of the inherent danger of one or both of the parties turning against the officer.
                I don't get why we can't have both. You have a trained social worker take the lead in de-escalation and the like, and one or more officers as backup for if things go south and force needs to be used.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by CMD View Post

                  I don't get why we can't have both. You have a trained social worker take the lead in de-escalation and the like, and one or more officers as backup for if things go south and force needs to be used.
                  I can see even that arrangement leading to a lot of dead social workers who got in the way when it was time for the police to take action. I suppose a compromise could be an increased emphasis in police training on non-violent resolution with the understanding that sometimes violence is the only option. I'm thinking of the situation in Columbus, Ohio several months ago where the police arrived and had mere seconds to stop a teen girl from stabbing another girl.
                  Last edited by Mountain Man; 07-23-2021, 01:01 PM.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CMD View Post

                    True, but if we did more to help people with mental health issues, we could prevent a lot of people from getting to this point in the first place.
                    Which is hardly an issue for the police.

                    Moreover, how often have you heard after a violent confrontation with the police where the suspect turned out to have mental health issues (which makes them no less potentially lethal), that they also had refused treatments or was off their medication? More mental health officials won't change that.

                    Is the solution back to warehousing the mentally ill?

                    I hope not.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by CMD View Post

                      I don't get why we can't have both. You have a trained social worker take the lead in de-escalation and the like, and one or more officers as backup for if things go south and force needs to be used.
                      Two words

                      Bud
                      Jet

                      OR, like in the case of our own PD, you have ALL peace officers (including the chief) trained in dealing with EDP situations.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Sounds to me like just a way to pretend to get rid of the police by hiding them under a new name.

                        Similar to how the Texas Rangers part of the Texas Department of Public Safety, right?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CMD View Post

                          I don't get why we can't have both. You have a trained social worker take the lead in de-escalation and the like, and one or more officers as backup for if things go south and force needs to be used.
                          By the time the social worker figures out he or she is in danger, it would be too late. Domestic disputes can flip in an instant. My brother was almost killed (he died on the table and was resussicated) after he and his partner went to a domestic call. Started out ok, until he went to separate the man from the wife to get him to cool off. Then all hell broke out. The wife even jumped into it and the guy's dogs. Both my brother and his female partner ended up in the hospital with life-threatening injuries (no gun shots thankfully). My brother ended up with a titanium plate in his skull and a partial jaw replacement.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Is the solution back to warehousing the mentally ill?

                            I hope not.
                            If that "warehouse" is run/staffed by trained professionals and has adequate oversight, they'd be a hell of a lot better off in there than they would be on the streets, or in a modern U.S. prison where the emphasis is less on helping the people inside and more on making their lives as miserable and hellish as possible.
                            Last edited by CMD; 07-23-2021, 03:18 PM.

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                            • #29
                              I agree that there are times when a social worker/mental health professional might be needed more than the police. If the call comes in, the 911 operator should assess the situation and dispatch the proper "team" - if someone is injured, roll an ambulance. If someone is having a breakdown, send a psychiatrist, but if someone is threatening to kill themselves or others and it could turn violent, then it should be handled first by the police and then they can turn it over to either the paramedics or social workers once it is safe for them. That is how things are handled now. The paramedics and fire will not go into a potentially dangerous situation without the police clearing it first.


                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                Two words

                                Bud
                                Jet

                                OR, like in the case of our own PD, you have ALL peace officers (including the chief) trained in dealing with EDP situations.
                                That works too.

                                Comment

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