Delta variant and all future global variant surges (all are free post)

[Sparko]

It seems that in areas with the highest vaccination rates, the majority of those hospitalized are "fully vaccinated" (whatever that means). This number does not take into account the high number of "fully vaccinated" individuals who are infected and contagious, either asymptomatic, or not sick enough to require hospitalization. So I don't know how accurate your 95% figure is.

see above where it is explained that a smaller percentage of a large vaccinated population could have more individuals in the hospital than unvaccinated but still be only a very small percentage of the vaccinated population. You are looking purely at numbers and not percentages.

I don't subscribe to your black-and-white thinking. "Inaccurate" does not mean "wholly useless".

I never said wholly useless, I said you can't trust them. Yet you seem to do so because they support your position.

[Stoic]

It very well may be. They even included numbers to back it up, which is more than you have done to show what they got wrong. Honestly, the easiest barometer of what is true is how eager people like you are to take a crap on something - if you're as eager as now, it's more than likely something that's true.

Perhaps you should look at the assumptions they make in order to come to that conclusion.

1) The only covid-19 deaths that are actually due to covid-19 are the ones where covid-19 is the only cause listed on the death certificate. (If there is anything else listed, such as pneumonia, or respiratory failure, or Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome, or respiratory failure, then covid-19 must not be the cause of death.) This in spite of the fact that covid-19 usually causes death by causing the lungs to fail. As the CDC puts it, "The other 5% of death certificates in which COVID-19 was the only condition listed was likely related to a lack of detail listed about other conditions present at the time of death."

2) The vast majority of the deaths reported in VAERS as occurring after vaccination are caused by the vaccination. Their reasoning is that if a death is not caused by vaccination, then there should be no temporal correlation between the date of death and the date of vaccination. If the deaths that are reported happen to be close to the date of vaccination, then they must be caused by the vaccination. (They refer to this as "clustering".) They completely ignore the possibility that the likelihood that a death will be reported to VAERS is much greater if the death occurred shortly after vaccination than if it occurred much longer after vaccination.

3) The actual number of deaths caused by the vaccination is about 100 times greater than the number that are reported to VAERS. (The underreporting that they claim may be true in general, but with all the attention given to the covid-19 vaccines, it seems unlikely to be true in this case.)

So yeah, if you take the number of deaths attributed to covid-19 and divide it by 16, and assume all of the deaths reported to VAERS are caused by vaccination and multiply them by 100, then it looks like you're more likely to die from vaccination than from covid-19.

[Ronson]

Interesting article from the BBC on Wales.

Covid-19 in Wales: A third of positive cases are unvaccinated

I do love how they try denigrating the unvaccinated by focusing on them in the article title. But if 1/3 of positive cases in Wales are unvaccinated, that would seem to imply that TWO THIRDS, AKA THE MAJORITY, are VACCINATED. (in reality it appears near the majority are vaccinated, but not two thirds necessarily as some of the numbers are from people of unknown status).

I don't know how they can write a headline like that and keep a straight face.

[Gondwanaland]

The take away is that if the vaccine worked, then we should be seeing zero or nearly zero vaccinated in the hospital, but we're not. Infection rates and hospitalizations are at the same rate now as they have been for months, and possibly even higher. The only difference is that we're seeing an increasing number of vaccinated coming down with serious illness. It's to the point where Pfizer is now researching an oral treatment in order to deal with the high rate of "breakthrough cases" in response to their vaccine.

Precisely.

Also interesting is the recent demonization of ivermectin. The patent expired for Merck in the 90s and now they're getting big dollars to make an anti-viral. What a coinkydink.

[Gondwanaland]

They never claimed the vaccine was 100% effective. Just 95% effective. Which is still pretty damn good compared to other vaccines like the flu vaccine. And with all the variants out there, that lowers the effectiveness more. I think they will eventually have to start using boosters with updated mRNA to cover the variants each year, like they do with the flu vaccines.

Also pick one:

1. the CDC and hospitals are exaggerating the hospitalizations and deaths due to covid to make covid look worse and get more government funding
or
2. The vaccine is not effective and all the hospital cases prove it

I have seen you argue both.

How about both? Both is good.

[seanD]

New York hospitals fire, suspend staff who refuse COVID vaccine

A spokeswoman for Catholic Health, one of the largest healthcare providers in Western New York, said it had reached full compliance, counting staff members who had been vaccinated, those with exemptions and some who had been suspended without pay.

The spokeswoman, JoAnne Cavanaugh, refused to say how many workers had been suspended or granted exemptions due to medical or religious reasons.

Catholic Health said it was forced to postpone "a small number" of elective surgeries.

Erie County Medical Center in Buffalo suspended elective inpatient surgeries and had stopped accepting intensive-care patients from other hospitals as it prepares to fire hundreds of unvaccinated employees, a spokesman Peter Cutler said.

Cutler said the decision to curtail some operations would inconvenience patients and hurt hospital finances. Elective inpatient surgeries bring in about $1 million per week, he said.

(...)

On Saturday, New York Governor Kathy Hochul said she was considering employing the National Guard and out-of-state medical workers to fill staffing shortages, with 16% of the state's 450,000 hospital staff not fully vaccinated.

Healthcare workers who are fired for refusing to get vaccinated will not be eligible for unemployment insurance unless they are able to provide a valid doctor-approved request for medical accommodation, Hochul's office said.

[Gondwanaland]

Perhaps you should look at the assumptions they make in order to come to that conclusion.

1) The only covid-19 deaths that are actually due to covid-19 are the ones where covid-19 is the only cause listed on the death certificate. (If there is anything else listed, such as pneumonia, or respiratory failure, or Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome, or respiratory failure, then covid-19 must not be the cause of death.) This in spite of the fact that covid-19 usually causes death by causing the lungs to fail. As the CDC puts it, "The other 5% of death certificates in which COVID-19 was the only condition listed was likely related to a lack of detail listed about other conditions present at the time of death."

2) The vast majority of the deaths reported in VAERS as occurring after vaccination are caused by the vaccination. Their reasoning is that if a death is not caused by vaccination, then there should be no temporal correlation between the date of death and the date of vaccination. If the deaths that are reported happen to be close to the date of vaccination, then they must be caused by the vaccination. (They refer to this as "clustering".) They completely ignore the possibility that the likelihood that a death will be reported to VAERS is much greater if the death occurred shortly after vaccination than if it occurred much longer after vaccination.

3) The actual number of deaths caused by the vaccination is about 100 times greater than the number that are reported to VAERS. (The underreporting that they claim may be true in general, but with all the attention given to the covid-19 vaccines, it seems unlikely to be true in this case.)

So yeah, if you take the number of deaths attributed to covid-19 and divide it by 16, and assume all of the deaths reported to VAERS are caused by vaccination and multiply them by 100, then it looks like you're more likely to die from vaccination than from covid-19.

I'll heartily repeat: Honestly, the easiest barometer of what is true is how eager people like you are to take a crap on something - if you're as eager as now, it's more than likely something that's true.

[Gondwanaland]

I don't know how they can write a headline like that and keep a straight face.

I laughed my butt off when I saw it.

[seanD]

Unvaccinated Students Told To Wear Different Coloured Wristbands So They Can Be Identified

First year students at the University of Bath have been given armbands by authorities to signal whether they’ve been double-vaccinated, with unvaxxed students having to wear a different colour.

“Freshers have been given wristbands to signal whether they are vaccinated against coronavirus amid anger at emerging “two-tier” university campuses,” reports the Telegraph.“Students arriving this week at the University of Bath have been given a different coloured wristband on club nights if they can prove in advance they are double jabbed, or have Covid-19 immunity.”

Those who cannot prove they’ve been vaccinated are forced to enter a different queue in a clear example of segregation.

[Stoic]

I'll heartily repeat: Honestly, the easiest barometer of what is true is how eager people like you are to take a crap on something - if you're as eager as now, it's more than likely something that's true.

How rational of you. /s

[Sparko]

Unvaccinated Students Told To Wear Different Coloured Wristbands So They Can Be Identified

They should wear a scarlet A.

[Gondwanaland]

How rational of you. /s

It's been an excellent and accurate rule of thumb through this entire pandemic.

[seanD]

It's been an excellent and accurate rule of thumb through this entire pandemic.

Ain't that the truth.

[Mountain Man]

House votes down proposal that would require illegal immigrants to be tested for the China flu.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spence...rants-n2596694

[seanD]

House votes down proposal that would require illegal immigrants to be tested for the China flu.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spence...rants-n2596694

And they also seem to be exempt from the mandated covid jab, unlike US citizens.

Let's hear what stoic has to say about that. I'd be interested in what kind of spin the vocal establishment shill will attempt to put on that.