Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Delta variant and all future global variant surges (all are free post)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by seanD View Post
    Kamala Harris is committed to "protecting the vaccinated."

    I suspect she's catering to the covid cult and their logic.
    Lol I saw that. It's like...uh..... pretty sure the vaccinated took the vaccine to be protected. Why do they now need to be protected by other people taking the vaccine? Does the vaccine now not provide any protection? And let's say that makes any sense, and that everyone gets vaccinated - who then protects the vaccinated from the vaccinated?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

      Lol I saw that. It's like...uh..... pretty sure the vaccinated took the vaccine to be protected. Why do they now need to be protected by other people taking the vaccine? Does the vaccine now not provide any protection? And let's say that makes any sense, and that everyone gets vaccinated - who then protects the vaccinated from the vaccinated?
      It would be interesting to know how many of those who are unvaccinated have already had covid. I would imagine it's a rather large percentage, which would make her claim just that much more bizarre.
      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
        Lol I saw that. It's like...uh..... pretty sure the vaccinated took the vaccine to be protected. Why do they now need to be protected by other people taking the vaccine? Does the vaccine now not provide any protection? And let's say that makes any sense, and that everyone gets vaccinated - who then protects the vaccinated from the vaccinated?
        It's compulsory to wear seat belts when driving cars, to reduce risk. But that doesn't mean it's okay to run red lights. Obeying the road rules also reduces risk. So you do both.

        Seat belts don't provide perfect and complete risk protection. Driving safely yourself and obeying the traffic rules doesn't provide perfect and complete risk protection. In the same way, the vaccine reduces the risk, but what other people around you do matters to, and the vaccine doesn't provide perfect and complete risk protection, it merely reduces risk like a seatbelt or driving safely does.

        In an ideal scenario, a vaccine that was good enough, given to enough of the population, would be sufficient to cause the rate of spread (the R effective) to go below 1 and hence the virus would disappear from the country, and, ideally, the world (e.g. smallpox a terrible and massively deadly disease, wiped out worldwide through vaccines). Sufficient numbers of people refusing vaccines means that won't happen, and thus the vaccinated people who are themselves trying to mitigate their risks will be constantly exposed to danger due to the actions of the unvaccinated. It's like you and your friends trying to drive safely in an area where everyone else is driving crazily and having accidents regularly, your own safe driving is going to be limited in how much it can mitigate the risks those around you are posing.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

          Lol I saw that. It's like...uh..... pretty sure the vaccinated took the vaccine to be protected. Why do they now need to be protected by other people taking the vaccine? Does the vaccine now not provide any protection? And let's say that makes any sense, and that everyone gets vaccinated - who then protects the vaccinated from the vaccinated?
          A question we've been asking for a while: If the vaccine works, then why are Democrats acting like it doesn't?
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            A question we've been asking for a while: If the vaccine works, then why are Democrats acting like it doesn't?
            Because you seem mentally incapable of understanding the difference between risk reduction versus complete elimination of risk?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              It's compulsory to wear seat belts when driving cars, to reduce risk. But that doesn't mean it's okay to run red lights. Obeying the road rules also reduces risk. So you do both.

              Seat belts don't provide perfect and complete risk protection. Driving safely yourself and obeying the traffic rules doesn't provide perfect and complete risk protection. In the same way, the vaccine reduces the risk, but what other people around you do matters to, and the vaccine doesn't provide perfect and complete risk protection, it merely reduces risk like a seatbelt or driving safely does.

              In an ideal scenario, a vaccine that was good enough, given to enough of the population, would be sufficient to cause the rate of spread (the R effective) to go below 1 and hence the virus would disappear from the country, and, ideally, the world (e.g. smallpox a terrible and massively deadly disease, wiped out worldwide through vaccines). Sufficient numbers of people refusing vaccines means that won't happen, and thus the vaccinated people who are themselves trying to mitigate their risks will be constantly exposed to danger due to the actions of the unvaccinated. It's like you and your friends trying to drive safely in an area where everyone else is driving crazily and having accidents regularly, your own safe driving is going to be limited in how much it can mitigate the risks those around you are posing.
              1. Your analogy fails unless you figure out a way to analogize the superior natural immunity of those that have had covid before.

              2. not wearing a seat belt doesn't harm someone else who is.

              3. either the vaccine is effective or it isn't. Y'all need to make up your mind. Especially when the majority of the country is vaccinated.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                1. Your analogy fails unless you figure out a way to analogize the superior natural immunity of those that have had covid before.
                I'm happy to lump people who have had covid in with the vaccinated group in terms of both having reduced risk of future infection and of future hospitalization and death when compared to those who are unexposed and unvaccinated.

                2. not wearing a seat belt doesn't harm someone else who is.
                No analogy is perfect.

                3. either the vaccine is effective or it isn't. Y'all need to make up your mind.
                Are you mentally incapable of understanding concepts like risk reduction, or partial effectiveness?

                The vaccine provides some level of protection. Likewise previous exposure provides some level of protection against future exposure, but is a much more dangerous way of generating those same antibodies compared to getting the vaccine. It's not a complicated concept.

                Please tell me you do actually understand and are just trolling.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  I'm happy to lump people who have had covid in with the vaccinated group in terms of both having reduced risk of future infection and of future hospitalization and death when compared to those who are unexposed and unvaccinated.
                  We're better, actually. But good to hear - many liberals are science deniers when it comes to natural immunity.
                  No analogy is perfect.
                  That's usually what someone says when it's been pointed out that their analogy sucks donkey butt.


                  Are you mentally incapable of understanding concepts like risk reduction, or partial effectiveness?

                  The vaccine provides some level of protection. Likewise previous exposure provides some level of protection against future exposure, but is a much more dangerous way of generating those same antibodies compared to getting the vaccine. It's not a complicated concept.

                  Please tell me you do actually understand and are just trolling.
                  Is it effective or is it not? I'm naturally immune. I don't go around worrying about whether or not other people have had covid, or if they got something shot into their veins. What is wrong with you people?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                    Lol I saw that. It's like...uh..... pretty sure the vaccinated took the vaccine to be protected. Why do they now need to be protected by other people taking the vaccine? Does the vaccine now not provide any protection? And let's say that makes any sense, and that everyone gets vaccinated - who then protects the vaccinated from the vaccinated?
                    I don't know exactly what Kamala had in mind, but one risk to the vaccinated is that so many unvaccinated will be needing medical care that there won't be any available when it's needed by the vaccinated for reasons other than covid-19. Perhaps in another few weeks, that won't be so much of a risk, but the risk may return this winter.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                      I don't know exactly what Kamala had in mind, but one risk to the vaccinated is that so many unvaccinated will be needing medical care that there won't be any available when it's needed by the vaccinated for reasons other than covid-19. Perhaps in another few weeks, that won't be so much of a risk, but the risk may return this winter.
                      Actually, you vaccine mandate folks are the ones that are causing medical care to be scarce. For example, ICU useage in Texas is not particularly abnormal right now, with 95 percent or so capacity, which is similar to average filled capacity in previous years before covid.

                      The thing that is causing shortages of medical care when it is needed, is the mandates forcing people (nurses in particular) out of their jobs (or pushing them to retire) at those hospitals. Something that is happening across the country. I heard a lot about how, for example, Houston was experiencing more than the staff could handle. What wasn't mentioned by the media, is that those same hospitals had put vaccine mandates into place over the summer, and a large number of staff quit in response. So you guys are making your own problems and then trying to blame them on unvaccinated.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                        Actually, you vaccine mandate folks are the ones that are causing medical care to be scarce. For example, ICU useage in Texas is not particularly abnormal right now, with 95 percent or so capacity, which is similar to average filled capacity in previous years before covid.

                        The thing that is causing shortages of medical care when it is needed, is the mandates forcing people (nurses in particular) out of their jobs (or pushing them to retire) at those hospitals. Something that is happening across the country. I heard a lot about how, for example, Houston was experiencing more than the staff could handle. What wasn't mentioned by the media, is that those same hospitals had put vaccine mandates into place over the summer, and a large number of staff quit in response. So you guys are making your own problems and then trying to blame them on unvaccinated.
                        The covid cult we'll never give up with that "our hospitals are going to be overburdened" canard, even though it keeps proving false over and over. Only in the case of the mandates, that actually might be a crisis.
                        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                          Actually, you vaccine mandate folks are the ones that are causing medical care to be scarce. For example, ICU useage in Texas is not particularly abnormal right now, with 95 percent or so capacity, which is similar to average filled capacity in previous years before covid.

                          The thing that is causing shortages of medical care when it is needed, is the mandates forcing people (nurses in particular) out of their jobs (or pushing them to retire) at those hospitals. Something that is happening across the country. I heard a lot about how, for example, Houston was experiencing more than the staff could handle. What wasn't mentioned by the media, is that those same hospitals had put vaccine mandates into place over the summer, and a large number of staff quit in response. So you guys are making your own problems and then trying to blame them on unvaccinated.
                          Eh, I'm not a vaccine mandate guy. Nice try, though.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                            Eh, I'm not a vaccine mandate guy. Nice try, though.
                            Can't blame someone for thinking that when you clearly pushed Kam's goofy fearmongering message about "protecting the vaccinated," and we know her intent with that goofy statement was to endorse vax mandates.
                            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                            Comment


                            • ICU beds in much of Oklahoma are limited, according to this report from the State Department of Health and Human Services: https://oklahoma.gov/covid19/newsroo...y-reports.html

                              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                              We're better, actually. But good to hear - many liberals are science deniers when it comes to natural immunity.
                              That's usually what someone says when it's been pointed out that their analogy sucks donkey butt.



                              Is it effective or is it not? I'm naturally immune. I don't go around worrying about whether or not other people have had covid, or if they got something shot into their veins. What is wrong with you people?
                              The vaccines reduce the chances of getting sick by 50-80% and of getting hospitalized or dying by 85-95%. The numbers depend somewhat on which study you look at or which age group you consider. Does that make sense to you?
                              Those percentages were even better before delta, and could become better with a booster shot.

                              Also, natural immunity is pretty good. But it seems likely that natural immunity plus vaccination is even better. See here for example: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...nated-rcna1974
                              Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.

                              "Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham

                              "We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."-Orson Scott Card

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by stfoskey15 View Post
                                ICU beds in much of Oklahoma are limited, according to this report from the State Department of Health and Human Services: https://oklahoma.gov/covid19/newsroo...y-reports.html



                                The vaccines reduce the chances of getting sick by 50-80% and of getting hospitalized or dying by 85-95%. The numbers depend somewhat on which study you look at or which age group you consider. Does that make sense to you?
                                Those percentages were even better before delta, and could become better with a booster shot.

                                Also, natural immunity is pretty good. But it seems likely that natural immunity plus vaccination is even better. See here for example: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...nated-rcna1974
                                No surprise - numerous Oklahoma hospitals also mandated vaccines for workers, so it's natural they have shortages, with people quitting, retiring, etc..

                                Another thing to keep in mind is that hospitalization numbers wrt covid are no longer a particularly informative or useful statistic.
                                Last edited by Gondwanaland; 09-15-2021, 08:44 PM.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by tabibito, Yesterday, 04:28 PM
                                3 responses
                                65 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by Sparko, Yesterday, 08:10 AM
                                2 responses
                                46 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Gondwanaland  
                                Started by CivilDiscourse, 09-19-2021, 07:03 PM
                                5 responses
                                56 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Gondwanaland, 09-19-2021, 12:34 PM
                                19 responses
                                157 views
                                2 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by Gondwanaland, 09-19-2021, 10:21 AM
                                6 responses
                                99 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Working...
                                X