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Delta variant and all future global variant surges (all are free post)

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  • Originally posted by seanD View Post

    Wen is an expert in the field. If she suspects overcounting, then there's a high probability that overcounting was/is occurring. I also can't imagine a reason there would be overcounting without government funding being a factor. I doubt Wen suspects overcounting is due to just medical incompetence.
    There is an absolutely massive difference between what wen is talking about and the moron based conspiratorial lunacy that has filled these pages and that it is being here equated to.

    But I don't expect those peddling the moron based conspiratorial lunacies to be able to tell the difference - whoever those people might be ...

    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seanD View Post
      Wen is an expert in the field. If she suspects overcounting, then there's a high probability that overcounting was/is occurring. I also can't imagine a reason there would be overcounting without government funding being a factor. I doubt Wen suspects overcounting is due to just medical incompetence.
      Your reasoning would suggest that there is probably overcounting of hospitalizations, since government funding is a factor. Hospitals get paid extra for patients (in certain categories) who have covid, whether or not they are in the hospital because of covid.

      But by the same token, your reasoning would suggest that deaths are not being overcounted, since hospitals don't get paid any more for someone who dies "from covid" than they do for someone who dies "with covid".

      One thing we know for sure is that there were unlikely that many undercounts, even in the beginning stages of the pandemic. Medical staff was undoubtedly diligently testing as early as March to make sure they were reimbursed for each and every covid positive patient they were treating.
      You seem to have forgotten how hard it was to get covid tests early in the pandemic.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
        Your reasoning would suggest that there is probably overcounting of hospitalizations, since government funding is a factor. Hospitals get paid extra for patients (in certain categories) who have covid, whether or not they are in the hospital because of covid.

        But by the same token, your reasoning would suggest that deaths are not being overcounted, since hospitals don't get paid any more for someone who dies "from covid" than they do for someone who dies "with covid".


        You seem to have forgotten how hard it was to get covid tests early in the pandemic.
        I doubt every Cares Act scenario of reimbursement of a covid positive patient was cut and dry.

        Let's say for example a man with a gunshot wound gets admitted into the ER and then dies the same day. He then tests positive for covid because they didn't have time to test beforehand, thus the staff that treated him or came into contact must now be tested. However, there may be no way to prove he had it before he was admitted. Or let's say a patient that tests negative for covid when they're admitted dies a month later while in their care. Up to that point the patient kept testing negative. They test the patient one final time after death, but this time the test is positive. Or, because there were reports of the testing being inconsistent, a patient tests positive, they treat them as a covid patient, but tests negative just before they die. Because of the circumstances, would it perhaps be less easy getting reimbursed if they marked them as dying with covid as opposed to from covid?

        But being that I don't work in the medical field and am uncertain of the procedures and details of how the government funds were allocated, I admittedly would be speculating here, but being that it's government with undoubtedly a lot of red tape involved, I would suspect the possibility of a lot of scenarios with a number of these type of variables and complications.

        As to your second point, according to the CDC, they had set up a "hospitalization surveillance network" in the beginning of March.


        Comment


        • Originally posted by seanD View Post
          Wen is an expert in the field. If she suspects overcounting, then there's a high probability that overcounting was/is occurring. I also can't imagine a reason there would be overcounting without government funding being a factor. I doubt Wen suspects overcounting is due to just medical incompetence.

          One thing we know for sure is that there were unlikely that many undercounts, even in the beginning stages of the pandemic. Medical staff was undoubtedly diligently testing as early as March to make sure they were reimbursed for each and every covid positive patient they were treating.
          One of Brick Head Birx's earliest directives to hospitals was that if a healthcare worker merely suspected that a patient had the China flu, then they were to consider it a China flu case without having to confirm it with a test. It is impossible that this didn't lead to overcounting early on since in many cases, the China flu is indistinguishable from the common flu just based on the symptoms.

          One of the biggest problems throughout the pandemic is that the data collection has been so slapdash that nobody really has a clear picture, although I think it's safe to say that things were never as bad as those in power led us to believe.
          Last edited by Mountain Man; 01-25-2023, 04:47 PM.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

            There is an absolutely massive difference between what wen is talking about and the moron based conspiratorial lunacy that has filled these pages and that it is being here equated to.

            But I don't expect those peddling the moron based conspiratorial lunacies to be able to tell the difference - whoever those people might be ...
            I've never advocated a conspiracy. It doesn't necessarily have to be a conspiracy or nefarious activity based on greed involved aside from a moral imperative and necessity to keep hospitals financially afloat during a crisis.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seanD View Post

              I've never advocated a conspiracy. It doesn't necessarily have to be a conspiracy or nefarious activity based on greed involved aside from a moral imperative and necessity to keep hospitals financially afloat during a crisis.
              The idea that there is some massive miscounting of covid deaths is primarily a conspiracy theory of one of the worst kind: It kills people by fostering mistrust in the Medical community, the vaccines and medications that do actually save lives. The idea is that covid's impact on lives is exaggerated, if not completely manufactured. Surely you are aware of that particular line of contributions in this thread? MM just made one. No - a small miscount does not have to be based on a conspiracy. But a small miscount or technical mistake that skews that data some small amount is not the point here ... now is it?
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                The idea that there is some massive miscounting of covid deaths is primarily a conspiracy theory of one of the worst kind: It kills people by fostering mistrust in the Medical community, the vaccines and medications that do actually save lives. The idea is that covid's impact on lives is exaggerated, if not completely manufactured. Surely you are aware of that particular line of contributions in this thread? MM just made one. No - a small miscount does not have to be based on a conspiracy. But a small miscount or technical mistake that skews that data some small amount is not the point here ... now is it?
                Again, I refer to Wen, who is an expert and is also suspicious of overcounting. And being that she was a little covid cult nazi, willing to tote the establishment narrative at the height of the hysteria, her argument holds even more weight now for its impartiality. Even though (to my knowledge) she hasn't made any direct correlation with overcounting and government funding, there must be something she suspects is driving the former and I doubt she believes it's just sheer medical incompetence.

                "Fostering mistrust" is just your opinion. Personally, I have no doubt the pandemic was exaggerated to unprecedented degrees (rife with countless changing narratives from the "officials" and professionals"), which did far more damage to society and the trust in media and the scientific community than any damage you believe was done by "conspiracy theorists."
                Last edited by seanD; 01-25-2023, 06:03 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seanD View Post

                  Again, I refer to Wen, who is an expert and is also suspicious of overcounting. And being that she was a little covid cult nazi, willing to tote the establishment narrative at the height of the hysteria, her argument holds even more weight now for its impartiality. Even though (to my knowledge) she hasn't made any direct correlation with overcounting and government funding, there must be something she suspects is driving the former and I doubt she believes it's just sheer medical incompetence.

                  "Fostering mistrust" is just your opinion. Personally, I have no doubt the pandemic was exaggerated to unprecedented degrees (rife with countless changing narratives from the "officials" and professionals"), which did far more damage to society and the trust in media and the scientific community than any damage you believe was done by "conspiracy theorists."
                  There you go. Thanks for making my point.
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                    There you go. Thanks for making my point.
                    Only I have more than "Trump supporters" on my side backing me (including former covid cult experts and lefty rags like The Atlantic), whereas you have covid cultists.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seanD View Post

                      Only I have more than "Trump supporters" on my side backing me (including former covid cult experts and lefty rags like The Atlantic), whereas you have covid cultists.
                      I have no doubt there are inaccuracies in the counts. It's the idea it is a sufficiently large inaccuracy to require a change in the perspective of how bad covid has been that I'm saying is malarky.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seanD View Post

                        Only I have more than "Trump supporters" on my side backing me (including former covid cult experts and lefty rags like The Atlantic), whereas you have covid cultists.
                        Reality Check: GLOBAL pandemic. US numbers are in line with those of the entire world. So EVERY country across the entire world was funding their hospitals and exaggerating their death counts by orders of magnitude?????????
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                          I have no doubt there are inaccuracies in the counts. It's the idea it is a sufficiently large inaccuracy to require a change in the perspective of how bad covid has been that I'm saying is malarky.
                          I concede that overcounting is primarily speculatory. But an overcount theory is no worse than your undercount theory. In fact, your undercount theory is even worse because there's not only evidence against it, but it sparks unnecessary fear by exaggerating the pandemic's impact.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seanD View Post

                            I concede that overcounting is primarily speculatory. But an overcount theory is no worse than your undercount theory. In fact, your undercount theory is even worse because there's not only evidence against it, but it sparks unnecessary fear by exaggerating the pandemic's impact.
                            Read the "Reality Check" Post seanD. If the US numbers were way off, it would be obvious, there are literally hundreds of other countries involved seeing the same or similar percentages.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                              Read the "Reality Check" Post seanD. If the US numbers were way off, it would be obvious, there are literally hundreds of other countries involved seeing the same or similar percentages.
                              We had this discussion. Most western countries also had central banks that were printing money and funding covid relief programs similar to the US. Though I haven't done extensive research on this, aside from population density and development, I would guess a lot of the countries that weren't funding (or couldn't fund) covid relief programs had relatively lower covid deaths, such as countries in Africa for example.

                              Comment


                              • This is just... wow...

                                Project Veritas goes undercover and finds another top-level Pfizer Research and Development executive admitting the company is mutating COVID viruses to create vaccines. Instead of calling it “gain of function” research, which is illegal, they are calling it “directed evolution.” This is very disturbing.

                                https://theconservativetreehouse.com...eate-vaccines/
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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