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Delta variant and all future global variant surges (all are free post)

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  • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
    They were expected to stop the spread of Covid-19, until Delta came along.
    And the point is, the science was never there to support such an expectation, and yet people were forced to get the vaccines, in many cases against their will. But now, thankfully, the New York supreme court is doing right by those who were unjustly fired for choosing not to yield to the coercion. We can only hope this sets a precedent, and that other states will soon follow.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

      And the point is, the science was never there to support such an expectation, and yet people were forced to get the vaccines, in many cases against their will. But now, thankfully, the New York supreme court is doing right by those who were unjustly fired for choosing not to yield to the coercion. We can only hope this sets a precedent, and that other states will soon follow.
      The science was there to support such an expectation, until Delta came along.

      But I agree that the science no longer supports such an expectation, and hasn't since several months after Delta came along.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seanD View Post
        "This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Not the vaccinated, the unvaccinated. That’s the problem. Everybody talks about freedom about not to have a shot or have a test. Well guess what? How about patriotism? How about you make sure you’re vaccinated, so you do not spread the disease to anyone else" -- Joe Biden 12/14/21.
        It's still the unvaccinated who are doing most of the suffering.

        But I no longer have a problem with that.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

          It's still the unvaccinated who are doing most of the suffering.

          But I no longer have a problem with that.
          The ambiguous spiel that those who get the jab get "less" sick is one thing, but that's not what addled-brained argued (and well after Delta was already widespread and reeking havoc). And he apparently used that false information to try and initiate mandates, which thankfully got shot down by the courts, and that are now sticking it to the companies that stupidly followed his tyrannical lead.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

            The science was there to support such an expectation, until Delta came along.

            But I agree that the science no longer supports such an expectation, and hasn't since several months after Delta came along.
            False. The science never supported the hypothesis that the vaccines would prevent people from contracting or spreading the China flu. In fact, a Pfizer representative recently admitted to the European Union parliament that the vaccines were never even tested to see if they could stop transmission.

            https://www.news.com.au/technology/s...17a62784fec414

            Furthermore, early studies showed that while the vaccines may have slightly reduced the risk of contraction and transmission, they never eliminated it.

            https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116597

            So all the confident claims by Fauci the Fraud and others that they would do so were based on literally nothing. Were they ignorant, or were they lying?
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Dr. Birx admitted that nobody expected the vaccines to stop the China flu.

              https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-deb...s-not-protect-
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                They were expected to stop the spread of Covid-19, until Delta came along.
                I do not believe that in the science and medicine they assumed that ther was no possibility that Covid-19 would not mutate into more variations that would continue to be more resistant forms to vaccines. This is the known history of all virusses. The potential 'stop' as you call it would only refer to before the Delta variation.

                Did they really assume that Covid-19 would not mutate?
                Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-27-2022, 10:28 AM.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  The potential 'stop' as you call it would only refer to before the Delta variation.
                  Studies show that the vaccines didn't even stop the so-called "Alpha" variant from spreading. It may have reduced the chances of spread to some small degree, but it never stopped it.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    False. The science never supported the hypothesis that the vaccines would prevent people from contracting or spreading the China flu. In fact, a Pfizer representative recently admitted to the European Union parliament that the vaccines were never even tested to see if they could stop transmission.

                    https://www.news.com.au/technology/s...17a62784fec414
                    No, they weren't tested to see if they could stop transmission before rollout. But studies were done afterwards, which showed that vaccinated people were much less likely to be infected, and that if they were infected, they were much less likely to pass the virus on to others.

                    Furthermore, early studies showed that while the vaccines may have slightly reduced the risk of contraction and transmission, they never eliminated it.

                    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116597
                    Any epidemiologist can tell you that you don't have to completely eliminate the risk of contraction and transmission to defeat the virus. You just have to keep the effective reproduction number (Rt) significantly below one. That appeared very doable before the variants took over.

                    So all the confident claims by Fauci the Fraud and others that they would do so were based on literally nothing.
                    So what did Fauci say?

                    “So even though there are breakthrough infections with vaccinated people, almost always the people are asymptomatic and the level of virus is so low it makes it extremely unlikely — not impossible but very, very low likelihood — that they’re going to transmit it,” Fauci said.

                    source

                    Were they ignorant, or were they lying?
                    I used to wonder the same thing about you, but I eventually decided that you couldn't be that ignorant.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                      No, they weren't tested to see if they could stop transmission before rollout. But studies were done afterwards, which showed that vaccinated people were much less likely to be infected, and that if they were infected, they were much less likely to pass the virus on to others.


                      Any epidemiologist can tell you that you don't have to completely eliminate the risk of contraction and transmission to defeat the virus. You just have to keep the effective reproduction number (Rt) significantly below one. That appeared very doable before the variants took over.


                      So what did Fauci say?

                      “So even though there are breakthrough infections with vaccinated people, almost always the people are asymptomatic and the level of virus is so low it makes it extremely unlikely — not impossible but very, very low likelihood — that they’re going to transmit it,” Fauci said.

                      source


                      I used to wonder the same thing about you, but I eventually decided that you couldn't be that ignorant.
                      We know from numerous studies and real world data that the vaccines' ability to stop infection, transmission, and serious illness was greatly exaggerated, and that it was far less effective than what we were being told. Fauci the Fraud claiming that the chances of so-called breakthrough infections and subsequent transmission were "very, very low" and "extremely unlikely" was political propaganda not supported by science.

                      Before the emergence of the B.1.617.2 (delta) variant of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), vaccination reduced transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from vaccinated persons who became infected, potentially by reducing viral loads. Although vaccination still lowers the risk of infection, similar viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated persons who are infected with the delta variant call into question the degree to which vaccination prevents transmission.

                      https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE

                      I know how you're going to want to read that, so let me break it down for you:

                      The inability of the vaccines to stop Delta caused researchers to question their earlier assumptions about its ability to stop Alpha. And now we have a court who has agreed that the science simply wasn't there to compel people get the vaccines under threat of losing their livelihoods.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        We know from numerous studies and real world data that the vaccines' ability to stop infection, transmission, and serious illness was greatly exaggerated, and that it was far less effective than what we were being told. Fauci the Fraud claiming that the chances of so-called breakthrough infections and subsequent transmission were "very, very low" and "extremely unlikely" was political propaganda not supported by science.
                        It was the best science available at the time.

                        Before the emergence of the B.1.617.2 (delta) variant of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), vaccination reduced transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from vaccinated persons who became infected, potentially by reducing viral loads. Although vaccination still lowers the risk of infection, similar viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated persons who are infected with the delta variant call into question the degree to which vaccination prevents transmission.

                        https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE

                        I know how you're going to want to read that,
                        IOW, you know I'm going to read it correctly, unlike you.

                        so let me break it down for you:

                        The inability of the vaccines to stop Delta caused researchers to question their earlier assumptions about its ability to stop Alpha. And now we have a court who has agreed that the science simply wasn't there to compel people get the vaccines under threat of losing their livelihoods.
                        The study you referenced compares the effect of the vaccines on Alpha and Delta, and concludes that the protection against infection and against onward transmission was less with Delta than with Alpha, and also that the effectiveness of the vaccines declined over time.

                        In addition, the study was dated February 24, 2022, BTW, nine months AFTER Fauci's statement, so even if you were correct in your interpretation of it, at best you would have shown that Fauci is not clairvoyant.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                          It was the best science available at the time.


                          IOW, you know I'm going to read it correctly, unlike you.


                          The study you referenced compares the effect of the vaccines on Alpha and Delta, and concludes that the protection against infection and against onward transmission was less with Delta than with Alpha, and also that the effectiveness of the vaccines declined over time.

                          In addition, the study was dated February 24, 2022, BTW, nine months AFTER Fauci's statement, so even if you were correct in your interpretation of it, at best you would have shown that Fauci is not clairvoyant.
                          How could it be "the best science" when it was wrong?
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                            How could it be "the best science" when it was wrong?
                            Sometimes "the best science" is wrong. How can you not know that?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                              Sometimes "the best science" is wrong. How can you not know that?
                              At least I've gotten you to concede that the "experts" were wrong about the vaccines, so we're making progress.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                At least I've gotten you to concede that the "experts" were wrong about the vaccines, so we're making progress.
                                "They were expected to stop the spread of Covid-19, until Delta came along."

                                That was me pointing out that the "experts" were wrong about the vaccines.

                                I don't recall you having anything to do with it.

                                Comment

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