Originally posted by Stoic
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Delta variant and all future global variant surges (all are free post)
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Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
And the point is, the science was never there to support such an expectation, and yet people were forced to get the vaccines, in many cases against their will. But now, thankfully, the New York supreme court is doing right by those who were unjustly fired for choosing not to yield to the coercion. We can only hope this sets a precedent, and that other states will soon follow.
But I agree that the science no longer supports such an expectation, and hasn't since several months after Delta came along.
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Originally posted by seanD View Post"This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Not the vaccinated, the unvaccinated. That’s the problem. Everybody talks about freedom about not to have a shot or have a test. Well guess what? How about patriotism? How about you make sure you’re vaccinated, so you do not spread the disease to anyone else" -- Joe Biden 12/14/21.
But I no longer have a problem with that.
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Originally posted by Stoic View Post
It's still the unvaccinated who are doing most of the suffering.
But I no longer have a problem with that.
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Originally posted by Stoic View Post
The science was there to support such an expectation, until Delta came along.
But I agree that the science no longer supports such an expectation, and hasn't since several months after Delta came along.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/s...17a62784fec414
Furthermore, early studies showed that while the vaccines may have slightly reduced the risk of contraction and transmission, they never eliminated it.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116597
So all the confident claims by Fauci the Fraud and others that they would do so were based on literally nothing. Were they ignorant, or were they lying?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Dr. Birx admitted that nobody expected the vaccines to stop the China flu.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-deb...s-not-protect-Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Stoic View PostThey were expected to stop the spread of Covid-19, until Delta came along.
Did they really assume that Covid-19 would not mutate?Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-27-2022, 10:28 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe potential 'stop' as you call it would only refer to before the Delta variation.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostFalse. The science never supported the hypothesis that the vaccines would prevent people from contracting or spreading the China flu. In fact, a Pfizer representative recently admitted to the European Union parliament that the vaccines were never even tested to see if they could stop transmission.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/s...17a62784fec414
Furthermore, early studies showed that while the vaccines may have slightly reduced the risk of contraction and transmission, they never eliminated it.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116597
So all the confident claims by Fauci the Fraud and others that they would do so were based on literally nothing.
“So even though there are breakthrough infections with vaccinated people, almost always the people are asymptomatic and the level of virus is so low it makes it extremely unlikely — not impossible but very, very low likelihood — that they’re going to transmit it,” Fauci said.
source
Were they ignorant, or were they lying?
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Originally posted by Stoic View PostNo, they weren't tested to see if they could stop transmission before rollout. But studies were done afterwards, which showed that vaccinated people were much less likely to be infected, and that if they were infected, they were much less likely to pass the virus on to others.
Any epidemiologist can tell you that you don't have to completely eliminate the risk of contraction and transmission to defeat the virus. You just have to keep the effective reproduction number (Rt) significantly below one. That appeared very doable before the variants took over.
So what did Fauci say?
“So even though there are breakthrough infections with vaccinated people, almost always the people are asymptomatic and the level of virus is so low it makes it extremely unlikely — not impossible but very, very low likelihood — that they’re going to transmit it,” Fauci said.
source
I used to wonder the same thing about you, but I eventually decided that you couldn't be that ignorant.
Before the emergence of the B.1.617.2 (delta) variant of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), vaccination reduced transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from vaccinated persons who became infected, potentially by reducing viral loads. Although vaccination still lowers the risk of infection, similar viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated persons who are infected with the delta variant call into question the degree to which vaccination prevents transmission.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE
I know how you're going to want to read that, so let me break it down for you:
The inability of the vaccines to stop Delta caused researchers to question their earlier assumptions about its ability to stop Alpha. And now we have a court who has agreed that the science simply wasn't there to compel people get the vaccines under threat of losing their livelihoods.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
We know from numerous studies and real world data that the vaccines' ability to stop infection, transmission, and serious illness was greatly exaggerated, and that it was far less effective than what we were being told. Fauci the Fraud claiming that the chances of so-called breakthrough infections and subsequent transmission were "very, very low" and "extremely unlikely" was political propaganda not supported by science.
Before the emergence of the B.1.617.2 (delta) variant of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), vaccination reduced transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from vaccinated persons who became infected, potentially by reducing viral loads. Although vaccination still lowers the risk of infection, similar viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated persons who are infected with the delta variant call into question the degree to which vaccination prevents transmission.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE
I know how you're going to want to read that,
so let me break it down for you:
The inability of the vaccines to stop Delta caused researchers to question their earlier assumptions about its ability to stop Alpha. And now we have a court who has agreed that the science simply wasn't there to compel people get the vaccines under threat of losing their livelihoods.
In addition, the study was dated February 24, 2022, BTW, nine months AFTER Fauci's statement, so even if you were correct in your interpretation of it, at best you would have shown that Fauci is not clairvoyant.
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Originally posted by Stoic View PostIt was the best science available at the time.
IOW, you know I'm going to read it correctly, unlike you.
The study you referenced compares the effect of the vaccines on Alpha and Delta, and concludes that the protection against infection and against onward transmission was less with Delta than with Alpha, and also that the effectiveness of the vaccines declined over time.
In addition, the study was dated February 24, 2022, BTW, nine months AFTER Fauci's statement, so even if you were correct in your interpretation of it, at best you would have shown that Fauci is not clairvoyant.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Stoic View Post
Sometimes "the best science" is wrong. How can you not know that?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAt least I've gotten you to concede that the "experts" were wrong about the vaccines, so we're making progress.
That was me pointing out that the "experts" were wrong about the vaccines.
I don't recall you having anything to do with it.
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