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As US states allow pot sales, Dutch reverse course

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  • As US states allow pot sales, Dutch reverse course

    http://news.msn.com/world/as-us-stat...reverse-course

    MAASTRICHT, Netherlands (AP) — A young man at a bus stop hisses at a passer-by: "What you looking for ... marijuana?" It's a scene of street peddling that the Netherlands hoped to stamp out in the 1970s when it launched a policy of tolerating "coffee shops" where people could buy and smoke pot freely.


    But Maastricht's street dealers are back, local residents complain. And the reason is a crackdown on coffee-shops triggered by another problem: Pot tourists who crossed the border to visit the cafes and made a nuisance of themselves by snarling traffic, dumping litter and even urinating in the streets.

    This exchange of one drug problem for another has become a headache for Maastricht — and may give reason for pause in the U.S. states of Washington and Colorado that recently allowed the sale of marijuana for the first time. The Netherlands, the world pioneer in pot liberalization, has recently taken a harder line toward marijuana, with mixed results seen particularly in border towns such as Maastricht.

    The central government clampdown has involved banning people who live outside the Netherlands from coffee shops, and shuttering shops that are deemed to be too close to schools. There was even a short-lived policy that said smokers had to apply for a "Weed Pass" to get into a coffee shop. The new rules were rolled out across the country between the middle of 2012 and the beginning of last year.


    Since coffee shops were banned from selling to non-residents, the numbers of foreigners has dried up. But the atmosphere in town has turned darker as street dealers now aggressively badger any potential clients and fight among themselves, Berghmans says.

    "Now the drug runners are trying to sell on the street to anyone," he says. "They are bothering everybody."
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

  • #2
    Or the entire US can legalize it, and then it isn't an issue for the few states. But here are the facts, at least in Colorado, while it is legal in the State, recreational store are illegal in many counties, including most of the border counties. The place to get it is in Denver, which isn't on the border, so frankly that isn't an issue here. There are visitors who come in and get it, but it isn't feasible to travel here often just for that. And pot is so easy to buy on the streets everywhere in the US.
    The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

    sigpic

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

      But Maastricht's street dealers are back, local residents complain. And the reason is a crackdown on coffee-shops triggered by another problem: Pot tourists who crossed the border to visit the cafes and made a nuisance of themselves by snarling traffic, dumping litter and even urinating in the streets.
      The Atlanta Braves (baseball team) are preparing to move from the city of Atlanta up to the county that I live in. Those opposed cite just these sort of problems as the reason that they're against them coming here.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        A fair number of people are traveling down I-70 from Kansas to go to Denver, and the Kansas highway patrol sees money in easy arrests from people taking it back.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          A fair number of people are traveling down I-70 from Kansas to go to Denver, and the Kansas highway patrol sees money in easy arrests from people taking it back.
          The amount non-residents can buy is small. Sure there will be some people traveling to do so, but it isn't significant nor a problem. We want people to come and spend money here. They come and buy pot, hopefully they smoke it here and spend at a lot at our restaurants.

          And I say again, who cares. I have known potheads and alcoholics. Give me a pothead any day.
          The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

          sigpic

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
            The amount non-residents can buy is small. Sure there will be some people traveling to do so, but it isn't significant nor a problem. We want people to come and spend money here. They come and buy pot, hopefully they smoke it here and spend at a lot at our restaurants.

            And I say again, who cares. I have known potheads and alcoholics. Give me a pothead any day.
            I'm not stating this to take a stance; just pointing out that it does seem to be driving tourism.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
              And I say again, who cares. I have known potheads and alcoholics. Give me a pothead any day.
              I'm the opposite. I see health benefits in alcohol in slight moderation but none in pot.
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • #8
                I am not talking about moderation, I am talking about addicts which is what the scare tactics all focus on. Not everything legal has to have health benefits (and sorry pot does have it, it is the only thing that has controlled seizures in some cases and is a known pain reliever for people who can't get relief from opoids or do not want the raging addiction that opoid pain meds cause).
                The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
                  And I say again, who cares. I have known potheads and alcoholics. Give me a pothead any day.
                  Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  I'm the opposite. I see health benefits in alcohol in slight moderation but none in pot.
                  I think you are seeing different aspects of the question. Pot heads are likely to be less trouble as tourists, I agree (as an ex pothead).

                  The health question is different. There are health benefits to moderation in drinking red wine, but what benefits for general alcohol consumption in moderation?
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
                    I am not talking about moderation, I am talking about addicts which is what the scare tactics all focus on. Not everything legal has to have health benefits (and sorry pot does have it, it is the only thing that has controlled seizures in some cases and is a known pain reliever for people who can't get relief from opoids or do not want the raging addiction that opoid pain meds cause).
                    I can not provide any study off hand, but I believe I have read that lung problems are worse for pot than for tobacco.
                    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You are right Jedidiah… but I wouldn't be surprised of general health benefits to general alcohol, probably some that are the same as pot--- pain relief for instance. However, alcohol causes more problems and needs great quantities for that kind of relief, but in pre-modern times, it was often used for pain relief.

                      However, the Bible has no problem with alcohol use "to make the heart glad" i.e, for recreation and emotional health. I would argue that moderate pot smoking for some people does the same thing. There is an inherent need in humans for mood alteration. Some food does that as well.
                      The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        As for medical marijuana (not recreational), I see it as cruelty to legally deny terminally ill people its use if it's the only thing that would blunt their pain. It certainly has that benefit at the very least.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                          I think you are seeing different aspects of the question. Pot heads are likely to be less trouble as tourists, I agree (as an ex pothead).

                          The health question is different. There are health benefits to moderation in drinking red wine, but what benefits for general alcohol consumption in moderation?
                          The health benefits for drinking red wine, to my knowledge, are related to the alcohol in wine, not to anything else. You could get similar results from moderate consumption of just about any type of alcohol.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Just Some Dude View Post
                            The health benefits for drinking red wine, to my knowledge, are related to the alcohol in wine, not to anything else. You could get similar results from moderate consumption of just about any type of alcohol.
                            Perhaps.
                            Last edited by Jedidiah; 03-09-2014, 07:52 PM.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Just Some Dude View Post
                              The health benefits for drinking red wine, to my knowledge, are related to the alcohol in wine, not to anything else. You could get similar results from moderate consumption of just about any type of alcohol.
                              I'm no expert, but my understanding is that benefit is also derived from antioxidants contained within the grapes themselves, especially the skin, a benefit which may also be present in nonfermented grape juice, depending upon how it is prepared and stored. I love grapes and grape juice, but am also not opposed to wine and other forms of alcohol, by the way!
                              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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