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Covid-19 global updates: Spread of delta variant prompts new restrictions worldwide

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

    This is straight up global conspiracy theory. It requires the medical community of the entire planet to be falsifying death reports. More, it advances nothing toward looking at ways to save lives by convincing young people to get their vaccines.

    And lastly, it's continuing to post after you've been asked to leave by the o/p.

    That's enough. Leave. Now.
    A "discussion board" would be a prime place to actually engage MM and at least attempt to debunk his claim if you believe such a claim is nonsense and easy to debunk.. you know like what one would normally do on a DISCUSSION BOARD like this. The fact you just outright censor and ban him like a little nazi wuss kind of gives off the impression you have to ability to refute it.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by seanD View Post

      A "discussion board" would be a prime place to actually engage MM and at least attempt to debunk his claim if you believe such a claim is nonsense and easy to debunk.. you know like what one would normally do on a DISCUSSION BOARD like this. The fact you just outright censor and ban him like a little nazi wuss kind of gives off the impression you have to ability to refute it.
      This is a thread devoted to a particular topic. This isn't a thread for kooks or conspiracy theorists, or for those who wish to derail from the topic. Post your crazy somewhere else.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

        This is a thread devoted to a particular topic. This isn't a thread for kooks or conspiracy theorists, or for those who wish to derail from the topic. Post your crazy somewhere else.
        No problem, bro. Adios.

        Just know that your thread was dead and had fallen off the first page. MM was the one that resurrected it. He did you a favor.

        Comment


        • #79
          When I saw rogue06 posting about the "lambda" variant, I thought that was a Daily Mail issue, but now I'm seeing "lambda" in WaPo.
          .
          Janis Orlowski, chief health-care officer of the Association of American Medical Colleges, offers one version of Scenario B: “Delta goes on to epsilon which goes on to lambda, and that becomes another ugly virus. . . . The virus mutates to a strain that we are not effectively vaccinated against — and that leads us into another ugly year.”

          (For the record: There already is an epsilon and a lambda.)

          For the record, lambda doesn't follow epsilon. What happened to zeta, eta, theta, iota, kappa?

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
            When I saw rogue06 posting about the "lambda" variant, I thought that was a Daily Mail issue, but now I'm seeing "lambda" in WaPo.
            Apology accepted

            When I'm looking up background information on a recent fossil discovery I've actually found the DM to be very reliable in their coverage so when it comes to science issues I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and not just hand wave them off.


            Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
            Janis Orlowski, chief health-care officer of the Association of American Medical Colleges, offers one version of Scenario B: “Delta goes on to epsilon which goes on to lambda, and that becomes another ugly virus. . . . The virus mutates to a strain that we are not effectively vaccinated against — and that leads us into another ugly year.”

            (For the record: There already is an epsilon and a lambda.)


            For the record, lambda doesn't follow epsilon. What happened to zeta, eta, theta, iota, kappa?

            Zeta variant

            Eta variant

            Theta variant

            Iota variant

            Kappa variant Mythical Japanese turtle-people have their own variant?!?

            Or not since that one seems to be blank
            Last edited by rogue06; 07-18-2021, 06:15 AM.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

              This is straight up global conspiracy theory. It requires the medical community of the entire planet to be falsifying death reports. More, it advances nothing toward looking at ways to save lives by convincing young people to get their vaccines.

              And lastly, it's continuing to post after you've been asked to leave by the o/p.

              That's enough. Leave. Now.
              I will leave your little thread after taking advantage of my privilege of a final response (but mostly because this thread appears to have run its course anyway and not because of your petty and cowardly attempts to ban anybody who disagrees with you).

              Sorry, but it's not a conspiracy theory. Sure, the China flu and its variants are real enough, but we know for a fact that it's less deadly than we were initially led to believe (deaths attributed to the first round of the China flu have been exaggerated by at least 25%), and we know for a fact that certain bad actors in our state and federal governments have used China flu fear mongering as an excuse for unchecked power grabs. And now that people are starting to relax and things are returning to normal (in my state, masks and social distancing are behind us, and people are living normal lives again), here comes the government with warnings of a new and supposedly more infectious (but far less deadly; they're not telling us that part) version of the China flu that's supposed to scare us back into compliance. And now we find out that the risky experimental vaccines that the government has been coercing us into receiving may not even be effective against it? Isn't that curious.

              Look, you're free to live in fear if you want, but it's not for me.

              Abyssinia.
              Last edited by Mountain Man; 07-18-2021, 08:52 AM.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Apology accepted

                When I'm looking up background information on a recent fossil discovery I've actually found the DM to be very reliable in their coverage so when it comes to science issues I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and not just hand wave them off.
                Checking articles against their headlines, and consistently finding the latter grossly exaggerates and even falsifies the former, and then noting the article itself was already presenting the evidence from a minority view, is the diametric opposite of waving them off.

                If the Daily Fail checks out in a publication that doesn't splash us all with quasi-wannabe-celebrity bikini pics, and you still choose to go with the bikini pics, any apologies on offer should be yours. Moreover, a willingness to defend the DF and similar publications while railing against media with qualitatively better editorial policies is prima facie evidence that the accuracy has no relation to the criticism.

                That's fixable, one step at a time.

                Start with the Daily Fail.

                Zeta variant

                Eta variant

                Theta variant

                Iota variant

                Kappa variant Mythical Japanese turtle-people have their own variant?!?

                Or not since that one seems to be blank
                Currently only Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta are listed as variants of concern. Kappa exists, and is currently designated a variant of interest, along with Eta, Iota, and Lambda. Epsilon, Zeta, and Theta aren't currently listed by the WHO, though they could have been listed previously as VOIs or VOCs.
                .
                Reclassifying VOIs/ VOCs

                A previously designated Variant of Interest (VOI) or Variant of Concern (VOC) which has conclusively demonstrated to no longer pose a major added risk to global public health compared to other circulating SARS-CoV-2 variants, can be reclassified.

                This is undertaken through a critical expert assessment, in collaboration with Technical Advisory Group on Virus Evolution, of several criteria, such as the observed incidence/relative prevalence of variant detections among sequenced samples over time and between geographical locations, the presence/absence of other risk factors, and any ongoing impact on control measures.

                Reading between the lines, omitting mention of further variants is probably a combination of across-the-board weaknesses in science reporting and the sources' interests in simplifying presentation to more relevant variants. Lambda's inclusion seems to be something of a political sop to Peru. A month after I last checked, there's still no evidence that it's gaining ground over Delta. It does appear to be relatively more proficient at shrugging off the Chinese vaccine.

                Lambda Variant of COVID-19 Might Be Resistant to Vaccines
                .
                A preprint study by investigators in Chile suggests that the mutation, which first surfaced in Peru about a year ago and is highly infectious, may also be able to evade vaccine antibodies.

                “Our results indicate that mutations present in the spike protein of the lambda variant of interest confer increased infectivity and immune escape from neutralizing antibodies elicited by CoronaVac,” the study states. CoronaVac is a vaccine manufactured by a Chinese company and that’s used in Peru. The study continues: “These data reinforce the idea that massive vaccination campaigns in countries with high SARS-CoV-2 circulation must be accompanied by strict genomic surveillance allowing the identification of new isolates carrying spike mutations and immunology studies aimed to determine the impact of these mutations in immune escape and vaccines breakthrough.”

                I'm shocked to find a vaccine promulgated by China, where any criticism of their Covid response comes with considerable personal risk, has proven less successful than advertised.

                Comment


                • #83
                  On a personal note, I'm in Miami for a few days for the start of the Fall term, which provides a reasonable internet access still lacking on my property in Georgia. I'll be back in Georgia again by Friday. There's progress on my connection there, with a subcontractor laying cable to a pod next to the east driveway last Friday, but until it's brought in the last 100 yards, it's a 15 mile trip to get a reasonable connection. And there's a full day's work, every day, bringing the property up from just barely sustainable.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                    Checking articles against their headlines, and consistently finding the latter grossly exaggerates and even falsifies the former, and then noting the article itself was already presenting the evidence from a minority view, is the diametric opposite of waving them off.

                    If the Daily Fail checks out in a publication that doesn't splash us all with quasi-wannabe-celebrity bikini pics, and you still choose to go with the bikini pics, any apologies on offer should be yours. Moreover, a willingness to defend the DF and similar publications while railing against media with qualitatively better editorial policies is prima facie evidence that the accuracy has no relation to the criticism.

                    That's fixable, one step at a time.

                    Start with the Daily Fail.



                    Currently only Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta are listed as variants of concern. Kappa exists, and is currently designated a variant of interest, along with Eta, Iota, and Lambda. Epsilon, Zeta, and Theta aren't currently listed by the WHO, though they could have been listed previously as VOIs or VOCs.
                    .
                    Reclassifying VOIs/ VOCs

                    A previously designated Variant of Interest (VOI) or Variant of Concern (VOC) which has conclusively demonstrated to no longer pose a major added risk to global public health compared to other circulating SARS-CoV-2 variants, can be reclassified.

                    This is undertaken through a critical expert assessment, in collaboration with Technical Advisory Group on Virus Evolution, of several criteria, such as the observed incidence/relative prevalence of variant detections among sequenced samples over time and between geographical locations, the presence/absence of other risk factors, and any ongoing impact on control measures.

                    Reading between the lines, omitting mention of further variants is probably a combination of across-the-board weaknesses in science reporting and the sources' interests in simplifying presentation to more relevant variants. Lambda's inclusion seems to be something of a political sop to Peru. A month after I last checked, there's still no evidence that it's gaining ground over Delta. It does appear to be relatively more proficient at shrugging off the Chinese vaccine.

                    Lambda Variant of COVID-19 Might Be Resistant to Vaccines
                    .
                    A preprint study by investigators in Chile suggests that the mutation, which first surfaced in Peru about a year ago and is highly infectious, may also be able to evade vaccine antibodies.

                    “Our results indicate that mutations present in the spike protein of the lambda variant of interest confer increased infectivity and immune escape from neutralizing antibodies elicited by CoronaVac,” the study states. CoronaVac is a vaccine manufactured by a Chinese company and that’s used in Peru. The study continues: “These data reinforce the idea that massive vaccination campaigns in countries with high SARS-CoV-2 circulation must be accompanied by strict genomic surveillance allowing the identification of new isolates carrying spike mutations and immunology studies aimed to determine the impact of these mutations in immune escape and vaccines breakthrough.”

                    I'm shocked to find a vaccine promulgated by China, where any criticism of their Covid response comes with considerable personal risk, has proven less successful than advertised.
                    As I said, when I look up something about a new fossil discovery, or a new discovery related to biological evolution, I have never encountered any of these problems of which you speak. In fact, there have been several times that their coverage was both more accurate and thorough than what I found on various popular science sites covering the same topic.

                    That is why, until shown otherwise wrt scientific issues, I'm not going to summarily dismiss them.

                    And if you want to reply by showing that they got something completely wrong wrt the Chicom coronavirus, you should also list those news outlets batting 1.000 on this topic.



                    Btw, I hope everything has settled down for the better in your world. You a Georgian yet?

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      As I said, when I look up something about a new fossil discovery, or a new discovery related to biological evolution, I have never encountered any of these problems of which you speak. In fact, there have been several times that their coverage was both more accurate and thorough than what I found on various popular science sites covering the same topic.

                      That is why, until shown otherwise wrt scientific issues, I'm not going to summarily dismiss them.

                      And if you want to reply by showing that they got something completely wrong wrt the Chicom coronavirus, you should also list those news outlets batting 1.000 on this topic.
                      If you found their coverage was more accurate and thorough than other sources, then you did so by comparison to more accurate sources than the DF, and you chose to cite the DF anyway.

                      It's gotta be the bikini pics. Not a bug, but a feature.

                      And then there's this arithmetic thing. Most grammar school kids learn there are numbers between zero and one before they're out of third grade. Your obstinate insistence that those numbers don't exist is more suitable for engaging with children than adults. You know that's not true.

                      Okay, it's patience time.

                      All the numbers between zero and one are not equal, rogue.

                      Btw, I hope everything has settled down for the better in your world. You a Georgian yet?
                      That's a matter under official dispute. The post office is delivering mail to the new address that isn't yet showing up as deliverable in government databases.



                      Speaking of government databases and teaching kids, I signed up as a sub in Wayne, Pierce, and Long counties, mostly to get a tour of the area and meet some honest-to-God Georgians at an age before they've learned to dissimulate. Among the many reasons I haven't started yet are internet access and my address being listed as undeliverable for an official ID card. See above.

                      Not that that's a barrier. They are so desperate for subs they're willing to forgo some of the niceties, like IDs. Not desperate enough to pay more than minimum wage, however. On the one hand, I don't need the money, but on the other hand, accepting the wage relieves needed pressure to raise wages for those who do. Paying substitute teachers less than counter help at McDonalds is scandalous. I'm not willing to be complicit in that.

                      And yes, also because the locals are up in arms against mandating masks or Covid vaccinations for school kids. Bless their hearts. I'm not really okay with waiting for them to learn their epidemiology the hard way, but I'm even less okay with providing a test case for why public health measures are necessary. The marine's kid is at ultra high risk, and illnesses from his own attendance at public schools before the pandemic are the reason he doesn't do public schools. Thanks to Governor DeathSantis, mandates are being fought out in courts in Florida, but my classes there are all online, so whateva.

                      Which dovetails nicely with the thread topic.

                      You're Georgian, and vaccinated. What do you say to folks, especially parents and kids, who are resistant to getting dosed?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                        If you found their coverage was more accurate and thorough than other sources, then you did so by comparison to more accurate sources than the DF, and you chose to cite the DF anyway.

                        It's gotta be the bikini pics. Not a bug, but a feature.

                        And then there's this arithmetic thing. Most grammar school kids learn there are numbers between zero and one before they're out of third grade. Your obstinate insistence that those numbers don't exist is more suitable for engaging with children than adults. You know that's not true.

                        Okay, it's patience time.

                        All the numbers between zero and one are not equal, rogue.



                        That's a matter under official dispute. The post office is delivering mail to the new address that isn't yet showing up as deliverable in government databases.



                        Speaking of government databases and teaching kids, I signed up as a sub in Wayne, Pierce, and Long counties, mostly to get a tour of the area and meet some honest-to-God Georgians at an age before they've learned to dissimulate. Among the many reasons I haven't started yet are internet access and my address being listed as undeliverable for an official ID card. See above.

                        Not that that's a barrier. They are so desperate for subs they're willing to forgo some of the niceties, like IDs. Not desperate enough to pay more than minimum wage, however. On the one hand, I don't need the money, but on the other hand, accepting the wage relieves needed pressure to raise wages for those who do. Paying substitute teachers less than counter help at McDonalds is scandalous. I'm not willing to be complicit in that.

                        And yes, also because the locals are up in arms against mandating masks or Covid vaccinations for school kids. Bless their hearts. I'm not really okay with waiting for them to learn their epidemiology the hard way, but I'm even less okay with providing a test case for why public health measures are necessary. The marine's kid is at ultra high risk, and illnesses from his own attendance at public schools before the pandemic are the reason he doesn't do public schools. Thanks to Governor DeathSantis, mandates are being fought out in courts in Florida, but my classes there are all online, so whateva.

                        Which dovetails nicely with the thread topic.

                        You're Georgian, and vaccinated. What do you say to folks, especially parents and kids, who are resistant to getting dosed?
                        Learn about batting averages Otherwise MATHS IS OF DA DEBIL!


                        I only know a couple people not vaccinated.

                        Asking why is obviously the first step. One, like Cow Poke, is for medical reasons.

                        One of the reasons I rant so much against the hypocrisy of those mandating things and then ignoring them (rules for thee but not for me) is one friend I've known for over 30 years says such mixed messaging and what it implies (it can't be that serious if they don't take it serious themselves) is the reason that she still has reservations.

                        For me, I find the statistical comparisons of those who have been "completely"[1] vaccinated with those who haven't when it comes to mortality rates or even just getting extremely sick, are the hardest thing to ignore. And parents with kids? Ask them if they have life insurance, and if they do, why.



                        Hopefully things will finally settle down on the home front







                        1. with boosters on the way that will become a more nebulous term
                        Last edited by rogue06; 08-22-2021, 11:29 AM.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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