Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated

[Backup]

I’ve never understood the motivations of the vaccine deniers.

It seems even the most selfish person would want to avoid getting sick.

Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...6e7354f5d5e187

[oxmixmudd]

I’ve never understood the motivations of the vaccine deniers.

It seems even the most selfish person would want to avoid getting sick.



https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...6e7354f5d5e187

I started a thread on this as well, but I was more focused on what I believe to be why there are so many people that are still unvaccinated.

https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...mation-machine

Fear of vaccines is not uncommon. There were problems like this with the polio and smallpox vaccines. This one is a bit different (AFAIK) in that it is driven in large part by republican politics and certain religious groups normally NOT averse to medicine (though increasingly averse to science).

[Mountain Man]

Fear of vaccines is not uncommon.

This is not a case of an irrational fear of vaccines in general. Rather, it is perfectly rational skepticism concerning one specific vaccine that was rushed through development, subjected to insufficient testing, has no long term data, has a disproportionately high rate of negative outcomes compared to other vaccines, and was approved for emergency use only. But I know this doesn't sit well with folks like you who worship at the feet of "science".

[Backup]

This is not a case of an irrational fear of vaccines in general. Rather, it is perfectly rational skepticism concerning one specific vaccine that was rushed through development, subjected to insufficient testing, has no long term data, has a disproportionately high rate of negative outcomes compared to other vaccines, and was approved for emergency use only. But I know this doesn't sit well with folks like you who worship at the feet of "science".

The people who are reluctant to get the vaccine are the same people who worship the guy who supposedly “rushed it through.”

[Backup]

I started a thread on this as well, but I was more focused on what I believe to be why there are so many people that are still unvaccinated.

https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...mation-machine

Fear of vaccines is not uncommon. There were problems like this with the polio and smallpox vaccines. This one is a bit different (AFAIK) in that it is driven in large part by republican politics and certain religious groups normally NOT averse to medicine (though increasingly averse to science).

I don’t understand them. COVID has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans, and here is a convenient, free way to avoiding getting it.

[Gondwanaland]

I’ve never understood the motivations of the vaccine deniers.

It seems even the most selfish person would want to avoid getting sick.



https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...6e7354f5d5e187

What about those of us who had covid and aren't getting the vaccine, what with having functioning immune systems? Are we "selfish" too?

[Gondwanaland]

The people who are reluctant to get the vaccine are the same people who worship the guy who supposedly “rushed it through.”

And up around election time, democrats were the ones reluctant to get the vaccine, while Republicans were becoming much more willing to.....

[CivilDiscourse]

This is not a case of an irrational fear of vaccines in general. Rather, it is perfectly rational skepticism concerning one specific vaccine that was rushed through development, subjected to insufficient testing, has no long term data, has a disproportionately high rate of negative outcomes compared to other vaccines, and was approved for emergency use only. But I know this doesn't sit well with folks like you who worship at the feet of "science".

To be accurate MM, it has a disproportionately high rate of VAERS reports.

Keep in Mind the ability to report to VAERS is open to the public, and they are free to report anything and everything as an adverse effect. If you get your covid shot, and the next day get diagnosed with advanced lung cancer, you could report that as an adverse reaction to the covid shot. If you get a runny nose, you can report that. If you have a heart attack, you could report that.

Its designed to provide researchers data to identify areas to research, but is not in and of itself a reliable source for causality of reactions. So, while you COULD report a heart attack you think came from the shot, it doesn't mean that it did, but if a large number of people reported heart attacks, that would give researchers a clue they need to look at heart attacks and Covid.

As for why it might have an unusually high number of reports compared to other vaccines, I think there's a number of explanations that could explain that, even if the actual adverse effect rate is "normal". The primary one is, the vaccine is brand new and developed for a disease the entire world has been highly concerned about. This makes the vaccine novel compared to something like the flu vaccine. People have had the flu vaccine, they generally know what to expect, and most aren't as likely to confuse coincidental illnesses with causal illnesses.

That doesn't mean that there ISN'T a higher than normal amount of adverse reactions, but it does mean that you can't really use the VAERS that way.

[oxmixmudd]

I don’t understand them. COVID has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans, and here is a convenient, free way to avoiding getting it.

Yes - sorry, I didn't mean to say I understand the sentiment or identify with it. My point was simply that it is not all nutcase Trump worship and/or QAnon related conspiracy theories

[oxmixmudd]

To be accurate MM, it has a disproportionately high rate of VAERS reports.

Keep in Mind the ability to report to VAERS is open to the public, and they are free to report anything and everything as an adverse effect. If you get your covid shot, and the next day get diagnosed with advanced lung cancer, you could report that as an adverse reaction to the covid shot. If you get a runny nose, you can report that. If you have a heart attack, you could report that.

Its designed to provide researchers data to identify areas to research, but is not in and of itself a reliable source for causality of reactions. So, while you COULD report a heart attack you think came from the shot, it doesn't mean that it did, but if a large number of people reported heart attacks, that would give researchers a clue they need to look at heart attacks and Covid.

As for why it might have an unusually high number of reports compared to other vaccines, I think there's a number of explanations that could explain that, even if the actual adverse effect rate is "normal". The primary one is, the vaccine is brand new and developed for a disease the entire world has been highly concerned about. This makes the vaccine novel compared to something like the flu vaccine. People have had the flu vaccine, they generally know what to expect, and most aren't as likely to confuse coincidental illnesses with causal illnesses.

That doesn't mean that there ISN'T a higher than normal amount of adverse reactions, but it does mean that you can't really use the VAERS that way.

Excellent explanation - thanks for making the effort.

[seanD]

I’ve never understood the motivations of the vaccine deniers.

It seems even the most selfish person would want to avoid getting sick.



https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...6e7354f5d5e187

Your OP is probably an example of why there are so many still not vaccinated.

The more the left makes the issue political and pushes it with all the creepy pro-vaxx videos and vilification against those who don't get it, the more they're going to resist. Cause and effect type of thing.

[rogue06]

The people who are reluctant to get the vaccine are the same people who worship the guy who supposedly “rushed it through.”

Considering that one of the largest groups resisting vaccinations happens to be the Democrat's most loyal voting block, what were you saying again?

[Mountain Man]

The people who are reluctant to get the vaccine are the same people who worship the guy who supposedly “rushed it through.”

If you say so.

[Mountain Man]

To be accurate MM, it has a disproportionately high rate of VAERS reports.

Yes, which is precisely where you would expect to see it reported and which has been sufficient in the past for a medication to be recalled, and with significantly fewer reports than what we're seeing for the China flu vaccines.

Honestly, I don't get this sudden VAERS skepticism coming from people who ordinarily treat "science" like an infallible deity. VAERS is thesystem in the United States for reporting negative side effects associated with vaccines and is what the FDA traditionally uses to determine if a vaccine should be pulled from the market for safety reasons.

[CivilDiscourse]

Yes, which is precisely where you would expect to see it reported and which has been sufficient in the past for a medication to be recalled, and with significantly fewer reports than what we're seeing for the China flu vaccines.

Honestly, I don't get this sudden VAERS skepticism coming from people who ordinarily treat "science" like an infallible deity. VAERS is thesystem in the United States for reporting negative side effects associated with vaccines and is what the FDA traditionally uses to determine if a vaccine should be pulled from the market for safety reasons.

It's not sudden. This has been a known thing for a while.

This is from a 2015 fact check:

Source: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/mar/03/naturalnewscom/vaccine-claim-misinterprets-data/

Those figures come from searches of the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), an online database co-sponsored by the CDC, U.S. Food and Drug Administration and agencies of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Significantly, anyone can file a report with VAERS: doctors, patients, family members, friends, "even if the reporter cannot be certain that the event was caused by the vaccine."

That is important to know when running a search of the VAERS database for the past decade.

That data reveal 105 deaths following one of the four measles vaccines. From the most common MMR vaccine, the count is 96.

But remember, the system is designed to capture as much information as possible. Tallying a death that happened after a measles vaccine is not the same as confirming that the shot was the cause.

(When available, causes of death after the measles vaccines range from existing heart conditions to co-sleeping to drowning.)

Researchers want that information to review and study for patterns, said Dr. Walter A. Orenstein, a pediatrician and associate director of the Emory Vaccine Center who spent 16 years as the head of the CDC’s national immunization program.

© Copyright Original Source

This pretty much mirrors what I just said.

This is from a CDC 2011 PDF:

Source: https://www.fda.gov/files/vaccines,%20blood%20&%20biologics/published/Ensuring-the-Safety-of-Vaccines-in-the-United-States.pdf

Adverse Events and Side Effects Adverse events reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) are not necessarily side effects caused by vaccination. An adverse event is a health problem that happens after vaccination that may or may not be caused by a vaccine. By definition, a side effect has been shown to be linked to a vaccine by scientific studies.

...

VAERS Postlicensure monitoring begins with the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), a national system used by scientists at FDA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to collect reports of adverse events (possible side effects) that happen after vaccination. Health care professionals, vaccine manufacturers, vaccine recipients, and parents or family members of people who have received a vaccine are encouraged to submit reports to VAERS if they experience any adverse events after getting any vaccine.

Scientists monitor VAERS reports to identify adverse events that need to be studied further. All serious reports are reviewed by medical professionals on a daily basis. VAERS data provide medical professionals at CDC and FDA with a signal of a potential adverse event. Experience has shown that VAERS is an excellent tool for detecting potential adverse events. Reports of adverse events that are unexpected, appear to happen more often than expected, or have unusual patterns are followed up with specific studies.

VAERS data alone usually cannot be used to answer the question, “Does a certain vaccine cause a certain side effect?” This is mainly because adverse events reported to VAERS may or may not be caused by vaccines. There are reports in VAERS of common conditions that may occur by chance alone that are found shortly after vaccination. Investigation may find no medical link between vaccination and these conditions.

To know if a vaccine causes a side effect, scientists must know whether the adverse event is occurring after vaccination with a particular vaccine more often than would be expected without vaccination. They also need to consider whether the association between the vaccine and the adverse event is consistent with existing medical knowledge about how vaccines work in the body.

© Copyright Original Source