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Will Science Matter in Five Years?

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  • Will Science Matter in Five Years?

    Let's define our terms first - science here refers to the information provided to the public by the industry/academia complex that we also call 'science'. It does NOT refer to the methodology that defines the most basic form of science. It's the science for public consumption that is being referred to here unless specified otherwise.

    I am increasingly of the opinion that the science complex has shot itself in the foot - several times - and has taken a very serious hit to its public image. I strongly suspect this last debacle with the C19 media frenzy will result in a strong backlash - the beginnings of which we are already seeing - that is going to drag public trust in science down with its trust in the media. I expect the result will be seen first in policy as politicians who want to gain or remain in office stop following the 'narrative ' (a term that soooo needs to die) of 'following the science' anywhere - at all.

    Lincoln's famous quote about not being able to fool all the people all the time comes to mind. This time, science can't just blame the media for its poor reporting. Fauci's emails are damning - and so are reports of scientists valuing politics over scientific truth/objectivity. What sane person is going to believe anything science supposedly tells them after this? And the truth is, given the hysterical levels of over reaction to other experts last year, this scandal is far from over.

    If, as I strongly suspect it will, American's come to believe that they were duped about aspects of the panicdemic, the traditional media is unlikely to survive. It will almost certainly take science down with it.

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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  • #2
    In five years, liberals may be even more pro-science than they are now, though conservatives may be a lot more anti-science than they are now.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      Let's define our terms first - science here refers to the information provided to the public by the industry/academia complex that we also call 'science'. It does NOT refer to the methodology that defines the most basic form of science. It's the science for public consumption that is being referred to here unless specified otherwise.

      I am increasingly of the opinion that the science complex has shot itself in the foot - several times - and has taken a very serious hit to its public image. I strongly suspect this last debacle with the C19 media frenzy will result in a strong backlash - the beginnings of which we are already seeing - that is going to drag public trust in science down with its trust in the media. I expect the result will be seen first in policy as politicians who want to gain or remain in office stop following the 'narrative ' (a term that soooo needs to die) of 'following the science' anywhere - at all.

      Lincoln's famous quote about not being able to fool all the people all the time comes to mind. This time, science can't just blame the media for its poor reporting. Fauci's emails are damning - and so are reports of scientists valuing politics over scientific truth/objectivity. What sane person is going to believe anything science supposedly tells them after this? And the truth is, given the hysterical levels of over reaction to other experts last year, this scandal is far from over.

      If, as I strongly suspect it will, American's come to believe that they were duped about aspects of the panicdemic, the traditional media is unlikely to survive. It will almost certainly take science down with it.
      I actually agree. The last year in particular has been a whole series of dumb mistakes and playing politics by scientists, and the way things are going now, it's going to make a hell of a lot of people simply not trust 'the science' even more in the future (there were already some body blows to credibility - or believeability/trust - of science over the last two decades when they let the more extreme AGW alarmists speak for and become the mouthpieces trumpeting global warming science and make over the top and apocalyptic projections and predictions)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        Let's define our terms first - science here refers to the information provided to the public by the industry/academia complex that we also call 'science'. It does NOT refer to the methodology that defines the most basic form of science. It's the science for public consumption that is being referred to here unless specified otherwise.

        I am increasingly of the opinion that the science complex has shot itself in the foot - several times - and has taken a very serious hit to its public image. I strongly suspect this last debacle with the C19 media frenzy will result in a strong backlash - the beginnings of which we are already seeing - that is going to drag public trust in science down with its trust in the media. I expect the result will be seen first in policy as politicians who want to gain or remain in office stop following the 'narrative ' (a term that soooo needs to die) of 'following the science' anywhere - at all.

        Lincoln's famous quote about not being able to fool all the people all the time comes to mind. This time, science can't just blame the media for its poor reporting. Fauci's emails are damning - and so are reports of scientists valuing politics over scientific truth/objectivity. What sane person is going to believe anything science supposedly tells them after this? And the truth is, given the hysterical levels of over reaction to other experts last year, this scandal is far from over.

        If, as I strongly suspect it will, American's come to believe that they were duped about aspects of the panicdemic, the traditional media is unlikely to survive. It will almost certainly take science down with it.
        I don’t think much will change. It is the same anti-intellectuals that have long been evolution and climate change deniers that are the COVID and vaccine deniers.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Backup View Post

          I don’t think much will change. It is the same anti-intellectuals that have long been evolution and climate change deniers that are the COVID and vaccine deniers.
          Exactly. It's not will science matter. It's whether or not there is a cogent argument for science and knowledge that can be made that will be strong enough to keep those less capable of personally validating the data and the math from being misled by the kinds of anti knowledge forces that we see so often here and on fox news and in the general far tight media.
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Backup View Post

            I don’t think much will change. It is the same anti-intellectuals that have long been evolution and climate change deniers that are the COVID and vaccine deniers.
            That has nothing to do with the topic at present. Although I admit the 'let's demonize everyone who might disagree with us' thing does increase the likelihood that the public will stop trusting science.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

            Comment


            • #7
              What are the details?


              According to USA Today, that meeting, which took place on Feb. 1, 2020, "played a pivotal role in shaping the early views of several key scientists whose published papers and public statements contributed to the shutting down of legitimate discussion about whether a laboratory in Wuhan, China, might have ignited the COVID-19 pandemic."

              The call was convened after Kristian Andersen, an expert in infectious disease genomics at the prestigious Scripps Research Translational Institute in California, told Fauci he was concerned COVID-19 may have been artificially engineered.

              "The unusual features of the virus make up a really small part of the genome (<0.1%) so one has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some of the features (potentially) look engineered," Andersen wrote in an email prior to the teleconference, adding that he and other scientists "all find the genome inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory."

              Andersen's email was one of more than 3,000 Fauci's work-related emails obtained by BuzzFeed News in early June.

              Among those on the call included Fauci, Andersen, Wellcome Trust director Jeremy Farrar, National Institutes of Health Director Dr. Francis Collins, "plus several other international experts on emerging infectious diseases and virology," USA Today reported.


              The Blaze


              Note that the Blaze is quoting USA Today - and it's a sad state of affairs when USA Today is more reliable than the New York Times.

              Collusion, anyone? Seriously, this reeks of corruption - and incompetence. I expected something along these lines would eventually be discovered - in a decade or so. In under two years? Well, I suppose there's some comfort in the notion that the Deep State is stupidly incompetent at times rather than merely corrupt and malicious.

              Getting the genie back in the bottle is unlikely at the best of times - and this isn't the best of times.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                In five years, liberals may be even more pro-science than they are now, though conservatives may be a lot more anti-science than they are now.
                Er, which liberals? The Far Left seems to be in ascendancy and they are anything but 'pro-science' if we are referring to methodology. As to the reputation of the science complex, that's just a tool to them - to be used or discarded as convenient.
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                  Er, which liberals? The Far Left seems to be in ascendancy
                  You know that centrist Biden won the Dem primary over progressive Bernie right? If you're referring to 'The Squad', then you realize that half a dozen congresspeople in the 435 member House doesn't come remotely close to being a majority even in one party even in one branch of congress?

                  Perhaps 'in ascendancy' means something different to you?

                  and they are anything but 'pro-science' if we are referring to methodology.
                  I'm a scientist. I'm a supporter of Bernie, AOC etc.

                  In response to the OP, I would say that US conservatives in the present don't treat science as mattering, neither the PR aspects of science, nor the methodology of it, and I don't expect that to change in the next 5 years. This is related in the US to the strong overlap between evangelicalism and conservativism, and the losing multi-decade fight that evangelicals have been waging against science, particularly around evolution and the age of the earth/universe. Their disinterest in science on covid or global warming stems primarily from their multi-decade fight against it on other issues.
                  Last edited by Starlight; 06-21-2021, 12:22 AM.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    You know that centrist Biden won the Dem primary over progressive Bernie right? If you're referring to 'The Squad', then you realize that half a dozen congresspeople in the 435 member House doesn't come remotely close to being a majority even in one party even in one branch of congress?

                    Perhaps 'in ascendancy' means something different to you?

                    I'm a scientist. I'm a supporter of Bernie, AOC etc.

                    In response to the OP, I would say that US conservatives in the present don't treat science as mattering, neither the PR aspects of science, nor the methodology of it, and I don't expect that to change in the next 5 years. This is related in the US to the strong overlap between evangelicalism and conservativism, and the losing multi-decade fight that evangelicals have been waging against science, particularly around evolution and the age of the earth/universe. Their disinterest in science on covid or global warming stems primarily from their multi-decade fight against it on other issues.
                    It is great that you are interested in true science. You are part of a great minority in the vocal world today.

                    I'm a conservative (roughly speaking in the ambiguous terminology) and I have presented a bunch of science on the problems of the PCR Test, as being used for superficial indication of positive "cases" of covid, and of the effective treatments for covid-19. However, no one ever wishes to get into the actual science. They favor the mainstream media nonsense, despite its like of scientific basis. So while we hold out for the science, too many people do not.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                      Will Science Matter in Five Years?
                      I think you mean 'The media'........ and 'yes', it'll be here in five years.

                      Let's define our terms first - science here refers to the information provided to the public by the industry/academia complex that we also call 'science'. It does NOT refer to the methodology that defines the most basic form of science. It's the science for public consumption that is being referred to here unless specified otherwise.
                      ....So you didn't mean 'science' after all. You meant 'media'.

                      I strongly suspect this last debacle with the C19 media frenzy will result in a strong backlash
                      Yep......... you really meant 'media'

                      ....................... is going to drag public trust in science down with its trust in the media.
                      ........... There you go....... so you've learned that the media is not all about 'science'. That's good.


                      This time, science can't just blame the media for its poor reporting.
                      .... and you still haven't got it right, have you?
                      No! Try 'This time, the media can't just blame science for its poor reporting'.

                      Fauci's emails are damning - and so are reports of scientists valuing politics over scientific truth/objectivity. What sane person is going to believe anything science supposedly tells them after this? And the truth is, given the hysterical levels of over reaction to other experts last year, this scandal is far from over.
                      Fauci is not 'Science'!
                      Sane people might not trust Doctor Fauci in future, but they will always seek out the science.

                      If, as I strongly suspect it will, American's come to believe that they were duped about aspects of the panicdemic, the traditional media is unlikely to survive. It will almost certainly take science down with it.
                      The 'media', which you have tried to weld to 'science', will never take down science.
                      Without 'science' you'd still be scrawling your messages on bits of slate.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        This is related in the US to the strong overlap between evangelicalism and conservativism, and the losing multi-decade fight that evangelicals have been waging against science, particularly around evolution and the age of the earth/universe. Their disinterest in science on covid or global warming stems primarily from their multi-decade fight against it on other issues.
                        I reckon so.
                        And so, imo, whilst using the results of science when it suits, they feel the need to call out against 'science' because it is trashing the fundamental claims of Genesis.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Since Scientism is the de facto religion of the U.S. and (mainstream, media-approved) scientists are its orthodox clergy, one of the best things that could happen is for most of the population to lose its fawning regard for "science."
                          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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                          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                            Since Scientism is the de facto religion of the U.S. and (mainstream, media-approved) scientists are its orthodox clergy, one of the best things that could happen is for most of the population to lose its fawning regard for "science."
                            Isn't it a bit anarchist of you to want society to lose its pillars?

                            Or would you prefer to set up a theocracy in its place, Iran-style?
                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              Isn't it a bit anarchist of you to want society to lose its pillars?

                              Or would you prefer to set up a theocracy in its place, Iran-style?
                              I guess you have a point in that people are designed to worship "something," and in a secular society, science is likely to fill that role.

                              In general, I don't favor theocracy, because there's always the possibility that I'll be considered a heretic. But if the only choices are Scientism and some form of theocracy, I'd just as soon have the latter.
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                              Beige Federalist.

                              Nationalist Christian.

                              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                              Justice for Matthew Perna!

                              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                              Comment

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