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Vaccines, if Trump won.

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  • Vaccines, if Trump won.

    The first vaccine Covid Vaccine came out under a Trump presidency. But, importantly, it came out after Trump had lost the election. But, what would things look like had Trump Won the election?

    Here's a few headlines that came out prior to the election:

    Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/2020/09/16/2ffbea6a-f831-11ea-a275-1a2c2d36e1f1_story.html

    Biden questions whether a vaccine approved by Trump would be safe
    Biden said Americans should trust a coronavirus vaccine developed under the Trump administration only if the president gives “honest answers” to questions about its safety, effectiveness and equitable distribution. “I trust vaccines. I trust scientists. But I don’t trust Donald Trump,” Biden said. “And at this point, the American people can’t, either.”

    © Copyright Original Source



    Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/kamala-harris-not-trust-trump-vaccine-cnntv/index.html

    'I will not take his word for it': Kamala Harris says she would not trust Trump alone on a coronavirus vaccine
    "I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about," she continued in the clip from an exclusive interview airing Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" at 9 a.m. ET. "I will not take his word for it."

    © Copyright Original Source



    Source: https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-09-15/most-americans-dont-trust-trumps-vaccine-comments-poll

    Most Americans Don't Trust Trump's Vaccine Comments: Poll
    TUESDAY, Sept. 15, 2020 (Healthday News) -- In a sign that Americans are becoming more wary about the safety of a new coronavirus vaccine, a new poll shows a majority of adults don't trust what President Donald Trump has said on vaccine development.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/23/health/covid-vaccine-safety.html

    The Trump Administration Shut a Vaccine Safety Office Last Year. What’s the Plan Now?
    The office was dedicated to the long-term safety of vaccines. Experts say plans to track coronavirus vaccines are fragmented and “behind the eight ball.”

    © Copyright Original Source



    Source: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/coronavirus-vaccine-scientists-safety

    Top Health Officials Are Hitting The Brakes As Trump Rushes For An October Vaccine
    Scientists inside the federal government are scrambling to throw up safety measures around coronavirus vaccines as President Donald Trump, bent on reelection and grappling with a failed response to the pandemic, applies mounting pressure on them to push a vaccine out to the public.
    ...
    In yet another major sign of the scientific community’s discomfort with Trump’s push for a speedy vaccine, an HHS advisory panel voted unanimously this week to recommend COVID-19 vaccines be approved for the public through the FDA’s “gold standard” licensing process, rather than the emergency avenues now being contemplated.

    © Copyright Original Source



    My suspicion is that had Trump won the election, and the vaccines came out when they did, we'd see a high degree of vaccine hesitency. Like the buzzfeed article, "The science would say" that the vaccines came out too soon, they didn't go through the proper safety checks, etc.

    Motivated reasoning, and a distrust of Trump would have lead to vaccine positions switching. Liberals and Democrats would be hesitant, and I believe republicans would be lining up to take the shots.

  • #2
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
    Motivated reasoning, and a distrust of Trump would have lead to vaccine positions switching. Liberals and Democrats would be hesitant, and I believe republicans would be lining up to take the shots.
    I'm sure there's some truth to that, but maybe less than you believe, and less than with some other things. I'm a Trump supporter, but I was skeptical about the haste of the vaccine development and approval, the closing of that office, etc. even while Bad Orange Man was in office. That would not have changed if he had won.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

      My suspicion is that had Trump won the election, and the vaccines came out when they did, we'd see a high degree of vaccine hesitency. Like the buzzfeed article, "The science would say" that the vaccines came out too soon, they didn't go through the proper safety checks, etc.

      Motivated reasoning, and a distrust of Trump would have lead to vaccine positions switching. Liberals and Democrats would be hesitant, and I believe republicans would be lining up to take the shots.
      Wow!
      There's political tribalism for you.

      In the UK we tend to polarise towards our leadership in a real crisis, and we mostly supported Boris right through until recently. He has even faired quite well in mid term by-elections..... until now!

      We'll be dividing again just about now! :)


      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
        The first vaccine Covid Vaccine came out under a Trump presidency. But, importantly, it came out after Trump had lost the election. But, what would things look like had Trump Won the election?

        Here's a few headlines that came out prior to the election:

        Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/2020/09/16/2ffbea6a-f831-11ea-a275-1a2c2d36e1f1_story.html

        Biden questions whether a vaccine approved by Trump would be safe
        Biden said Americans should trust a coronavirus vaccine developed under the Trump administration only if the president gives “honest answers” to questions about its safety, effectiveness and equitable distribution. “I trust vaccines. I trust scientists. But I don’t trust Donald Trump,” Biden said. “And at this point, the American people can’t, either.”

        © Copyright Original Source



        Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/kamala-harris-not-trust-trump-vaccine-cnntv/index.html

        'I will not take his word for it': Kamala Harris says she would not trust Trump alone on a coronavirus vaccine
        "I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about," she continued in the clip from an exclusive interview airing Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" at 9 a.m. ET. "I will not take his word for it."

        © Copyright Original Source



        Source: https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-09-15/most-americans-dont-trust-trumps-vaccine-comments-poll

        Most Americans Don't Trust Trump's Vaccine Comments: Poll
        TUESDAY, Sept. 15, 2020 (Healthday News) -- In a sign that Americans are becoming more wary about the safety of a new coronavirus vaccine, a new poll shows a majority of adults don't trust what President Donald Trump has said on vaccine development.

        © Copyright Original Source



        Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/23/health/covid-vaccine-safety.html

        The Trump Administration Shut a Vaccine Safety Office Last Year. What’s the Plan Now?
        The office was dedicated to the long-term safety of vaccines. Experts say plans to track coronavirus vaccines are fragmented and “behind the eight ball.”

        © Copyright Original Source



        Source: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/coronavirus-vaccine-scientists-safety

        Top Health Officials Are Hitting The Brakes As Trump Rushes For An October Vaccine
        Scientists inside the federal government are scrambling to throw up safety measures around coronavirus vaccines as President Donald Trump, bent on reelection and grappling with a failed response to the pandemic, applies mounting pressure on them to push a vaccine out to the public.
        ...
        In yet another major sign of the scientific community’s discomfort with Trump’s push for a speedy vaccine, an HHS advisory panel voted unanimously this week to recommend COVID-19 vaccines be approved for the public through the FDA’s “gold standard” licensing process, rather than the emergency avenues now being contemplated.

        © Copyright Original Source



        My suspicion is that had Trump won the election, and the vaccines came out when they did, we'd see a high degree of vaccine hesitency. Like the buzzfeed article, "The science would say" that the vaccines came out too soon, they didn't go through the proper safety checks, etc.

        Motivated reasoning, and a distrust of Trump would have lead to vaccine positions switching. Liberals and Democrats would be hesitant, and I believe republicans would be lining up to take the shots.
        Why would you believe that would be the case? I mean just because they shut down all discussion about the lab in Wuhan being the actual source of the Chicom coronavirus only because Trump was advocating the idea, doesn't... mean... that... Never mind.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

          I'm sure there's some truth to that, but maybe less than you believe, and less than with some other things. I'm a Trump supporter, but I was skeptical about the haste of the vaccine development and approval, the closing of that office, etc. even while Bad Orange Man was in office. That would not have changed if he had won.
          Perhaps. But I've seen enough over the years, to expect the pattern to hold.

          I see it happening this way:
          Vaccines come out, Trump is president. The democrats distrust trump, and transfer that distrust to the vaccine. The articles already show that distrust there. As the democrats double down on distrusting the vaccine they produce politically motivated experts who urge caution. The media, also distrustful of Trump, engage in confirmation bias. They highlight the same scientists that the democrats do. Also, potential complications from the vaccine are deemed very important and are reported on continuously. The potential severity of the side-effects are highlighted, and the incident rate is reported lower in the article, or is presented in a sensational manner. (A 1 in a 1,000,000 chance of serious thing changes to 2 in 1,000,000 chance. This is reported as a doubling of the risk of serious thing happening!) In the end those opposed to Trump convince themselves the vaccine is dangerous and risky and should not be trusted.

          On the flip side, Trump, loving that he has a vaccine promotes it. In usual Trump fashion, he overstates, or poorly states his case. The opening gives the media opportunity to call him on another lie or faux pas. Trump supporters defend trump. As they see democrats and media unfairly skewing data, and downplaying the vaccine. They look into the results themselves. They see the side effects are often mild, and serious effects are rare. They argue with friends/relatives/strangers about how the media is once again out to get Trump, that the democrats are lying. In order to defend Trump, they have to argue that the vaccine is safe. Through the repeated arguments, the battle lines are drawn, and you either choose to be in the safe camp or the dangerous camp. And by virtue of partisanship, you end up aligning with the prevailing winds within the party.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

            I'm sure there's some truth to that, but maybe less than you believe, and less than with some other things. I'm a Trump supporter, but I was skeptical about the haste of the vaccine development and approval, the closing of that office, etc. even while Bad Orange Man was in office. That would not have changed if he had won.
            A lot of "if Trump had won" arguments seem to be based on the false premise that Trump's supporters mindlessly follow him the way liberals mindlessly follow elected Democrats.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #7
              There is definitely a Trump cult of delusional supporters, no doubt.

              But there are a lot of us (who would be classified as Trump supports by the left -- or rather, I like to classify us as folks that will support any opposition against the loony leftist marxism and intersectionality cult force sweeping across the land even if it means backing a jackass like a Trump) who aren't of that cult and are independent thinkers.

              So, in a sense what you say is true, but I think this would be much more obviously reflected by the TDS left than the political right since the diehard Trump cult is but a small minority and has very minuscule media influence than the rather large and powerful hypocritical and unprincipled leftist TDS cult.

              With that said, yes, we have tribalism politics the likes of which we've never seen before in America, something I don't think any of us aren't aware of.
              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seanD View Post
                There is definitely a Trump cult of delusional supporters, no doubt.

                But there are a lot of us (who would be classified as Trump supports by the left -- or rather, I like to classify us as folks that will support any opposition against the loony leftist marxism and intersectionality cult force sweeping across the land even if it means backing a jackass like a Trump) who aren't of that cult and are independent thinkers.

                So, in a sense what you say is true, but I think this would be much more obviously reflected by the TDS left than the political right since the diehard Trump cult is but a small minority and has very minuscule media influence than the rather large and powerful hypocritical and unprincipled leftist TDS cult.

                With that said, yes, we have tribalism politics the likes of which we've never seen before in America, something I don't think any of us aren't aware of.
                I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. It's not about blindly following Trump. It's about how partisanship pushes arguments, and the very act of the arguing hardens and shifts positions.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                  I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. It's not about blindly following Trump. It's about how partisanship pushes arguments, and the very act of the arguing hardens and shifts positions.
                  And I agree, only the partisanship is far worse reflected by the left, evident by how hypocritical and unprincipled they are on just about every subject, from economics to racism.
                  "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post

                    And I agree, only the partisanship is far worse reflected by the left, evident by how hypocritical and unprincipled they are on just about every subject, from economics to racism.
                    Ironically that still has the effect of pushing positions of conservatives.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                      The first vaccine Covid Vaccine came out under a Trump presidency. But, importantly, it came out after Trump had lost the election. But, what would things look like had Trump Won the election?

                      Here's a few headlines that came out prior to the election:

                      Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/2020/09/16/2ffbea6a-f831-11ea-a275-1a2c2d36e1f1_story.html

                      Biden questions whether a vaccine approved by Trump would be safe
                      Biden said Americans should trust a coronavirus vaccine developed under the Trump administration only if the president gives “honest answers” to questions about its safety, effectiveness and equitable distribution. “I trust vaccines. I trust scientists. But I don’t trust Donald Trump,” Biden said. “And at this point, the American people can’t, either.”

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/kamala-harris-not-trust-trump-vaccine-cnntv/index.html

                      'I will not take his word for it': Kamala Harris says she would not trust Trump alone on a coronavirus vaccine
                      "I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about," she continued in the clip from an exclusive interview airing Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" at 9 a.m. ET. "I will not take his word for it."

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      Source: https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-09-15/most-americans-dont-trust-trumps-vaccine-comments-poll

                      Most Americans Don't Trust Trump's Vaccine Comments: Poll
                      TUESDAY, Sept. 15, 2020 (Healthday News) -- In a sign that Americans are becoming more wary about the safety of a new coronavirus vaccine, a new poll shows a majority of adults don't trust what President Donald Trump has said on vaccine development.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/23/health/covid-vaccine-safety.html

                      The Trump Administration Shut a Vaccine Safety Office Last Year. What’s the Plan Now?
                      The office was dedicated to the long-term safety of vaccines. Experts say plans to track coronavirus vaccines are fragmented and “behind the eight ball.”

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      Source: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/coronavirus-vaccine-scientists-safety

                      Top Health Officials Are Hitting The Brakes As Trump Rushes For An October Vaccine
                      Scientists inside the federal government are scrambling to throw up safety measures around coronavirus vaccines as President Donald Trump, bent on reelection and grappling with a failed response to the pandemic, applies mounting pressure on them to push a vaccine out to the public.
                      ...
                      In yet another major sign of the scientific community’s discomfort with Trump’s push for a speedy vaccine, an HHS advisory panel voted unanimously this week to recommend COVID-19 vaccines be approved for the public through the FDA’s “gold standard” licensing process, rather than the emergency avenues now being contemplated.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      My suspicion is that had Trump won the election, and the vaccines came out when they did, we'd see a high degree of vaccine hesitency. Like the buzzfeed article, "The science would say" that the vaccines came out too soon, they didn't go through the proper safety checks, etc.

                      Motivated reasoning, and a distrust of Trump would have lead to vaccine positions switching. Liberals and Democrats would be hesitant, and I believe republicans would be lining up to take the shots.
                      Obviously Trump can’t be trusted, but if the CDC and WHO said the vaccines were safe, most liberals would get them.

                      You do bring up an interesting point, though. I wonder if right-wingers would get the vaccine if Trump told them to.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Backup View Post

                        Obviously Trump can’t be trusted, but if the CDC and WHO said the vaccines were safe, most liberals would get them.

                        You do bring up an interesting point, though. I wonder if right-wingers would get the vaccine if Trump told them to.
                        He has already advocated them. I'm not aware of his ever having backtracked from that. It would not matter to any of the conservatives I know. We would not trust his advocacy, because he was the one who pushed them through so quickly.
                        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                        Beige Nationalist.

                        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Backup View Post

                          Obviously Trump can’t be trusted, but if the CDC and WHO said the vaccines were safe, most liberals would get them.
                          But that's the issue. You're assuming they would say they were safe. As we saw this last year, scientists were determining what was 'science' based on whether Trump supported it or not. If he supported it, it was a vile conspiracy theory and verboten from discussion. So if he did win and pushed the vaccines, I have my doubts that they would say they were safe.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                            A lot of "if Trump had won" arguments seem to be based on the false premise that Trump's supporters mindlessly follow him the way liberals mindlessly follow elected Democrats.
                            You seriously believe Trump supporters don’t follow him more than any Democrats follow Biden?

                            I haven’t seen anyone flying a Biden flags, or even any yard signs since the election.


                            Evidince of Trump cultism is everywhere.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                              But that's the issue. You're assuming they would say they were safe. As we saw this last year, scientists were determining what was 'science' based on whether Trump supported it or not. If he supported it, it was a vile conspiracy theory and verboten from discussion. So if he did win and pushed the vaccines, I have my doubts that they would say they were safe.
                              We’ll have to disagree on that.

                              I’ve known plenty of scientists and none have based their views on science on politics.That’s what conspiracy theorists say when the scientific community doesn’t support their claims.

                              Comment

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