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  • mossrose
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    What we are at risk of repeating is the pandemic. Vaccines have been around a very long time. This vaccine uses a difference mechanism to create the immune response, but the basic principle is the same as with all vaccines - put the genetic material from the virus into your body in a way that doesn't actually make you sick and by doing so get your body to create an immune response to it that is sufficient to destroy the actual virus when it gets in you.

    Most of the fear people have of the vaccine is not rational - it is driven by misinformation, both about the vaccine and the disease it protects from. But there was vaccine fear and hesitency even for things like polio and smallpox. It's a common occurrence, but it does tend to be destructive in the long run. In this case, it is keeping us from ridding ourselves of Covid and gives it more chances to mutate to a form that can do an end run around the vaccine, which means we start all over again.

    We don't want another year of this. Please find a way to overcome the fear and get the shot.


    Jim
    My husband and I have had both Moderna shots. Our son has had one, and is waiting for the second until this latest supply issue is remediated.

    What we have NOT been afraid of for the past year is covid.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    We are dealing with vaccine supply issues all the time. There are a lot of people getting vaccinated when the supply is available. My province. as of either yesterday or Tuesday, is about 45,000 people short of the 75% of the population they want vaccinated with at least one dose.

    And now they have lotteries to get people to be vaccinated, which I think is ridiculous. Because so much money has already been thrown at covid, and this will come right out of the taxpayers pockets like all of it will, and just put us all further in debt.
    The US has lots of vaccines waiting to be given. Time for a side trip? Is that possible for you?

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    No, it's a fact that the China flu vaccines are still in the experimental stage and were only approved for emergency use. If you wish to dispute this, then feel free to present evidence of long-term testing and FDA approval.
    And exactly how many people do you suppose a typical trial puts shots into the arms of? We have 3 to 6 months of trials followed by 6 months or actual shots in the arms. So we now we have a year of trial and sample sets in terms of reactions in the hundreds of millions of doses. What you advocate is letting this go on for what, another year or two before we start vaccinating - another million people dead in the US alone? If we had waited even another 6 months is would mean 300,000+ more people dead. Your position is not merely ignorant MM, it is negligent. When does withholding a medicine that will save millions of lives become homicide?

    Leave a comment:


  • mossrose
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    In deference to those that are not yet vaccinated? Do you have problems with vaccine supply or people not being willing to be vaccinated where you are? The Delta variant makes it a good bit more dangerous right now if you have a large population that is not yet vaccinated regardless of the cause.
    We are dealing with vaccine supply issues all the time. There are a lot of people getting vaccinated when the supply is available. My province. as of either yesterday or Tuesday, is about 45,000 people short of the 75% of the population they want vaccinated with at least one dose.

    And now they have lotteries to get people to be vaccinated, which I think is ridiculous. Because so much money has already been thrown at covid, and this will come right out of the taxpayers pockets like all of it will, and just put us all further in debt.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    This whole thing reminds me of the Thalidomide given to pregnant women in the late '50's and early '60's. Sold aggressively to woman who were pregnant or became pregnant, it was a disaster.

    I feel so much like we are at risk of repeating that sort of thing. Especially when we have people castigating us for not choosing to get the vaccine.
    What we are at risk of repeating is the pandemic. Vaccines have been around a very long time. This vaccine uses a difference mechanism to create the immune response, but the basic principle is the same as with all vaccines - put the genetic material from the virus into your body in a way that doesn't actually make you sick and by doing so get your body to create an immune response to it that is sufficient to destroy the actual virus when it gets in you.

    Most of the fear people have of the vaccine is not rational - it is driven by misinformation, both about the vaccine and the disease it protects from. But there was vaccine fear and hesitency even for things like polio and smallpox. It's a common occurrence, but it does tend to be destructive in the long run. In this case, it is keeping us from ridding ourselves of Covid and gives it more chances to mutate to a form that can do an end run around the vaccine, which means we start all over again.

    We don't want another year of this. Please find a way to overcome the fear and get the shot.


    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-17-2021, 04:43 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    No, it's a fact that the China flu vaccines are still in the experimental stage and were only approved for emergency use. If you wish to dispute this, then feel free to present evidence of long-term testing and FDA approval.

    It's also a fact that a disproportionate number of negative outcomes from the China flu vaccine have been submitted to the VAERS database.

    In the latest round of tests currently being conducted on subjects as young as 16, it has been found that there is a considerable risk of heart enlargement.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/10/covi...cond-shot.html

    As if the short term risks weren't bad enough, we still don't know what the long-term consequence will be from this rush to inject people with a dangerous, experimental vaccine.

    As the saying goes, we live in interesting times.
    Others have tried to reason with you on this, so I'll be brief. The mRNA vaccines are not a new technology(it has been around a while now), but this is a new application for them. And yes, there are side effects - as there are with all vaccines and medications - but so far most of them have been fairly easy to treat, the more serious ones are rare, and they are not long lasting, which is the case for the one you link to above.

    Each year we get a flu vaccine. And some people react poorly to them. This is a far deadlier virus, it spreads more easily, it is a pandemic and has killed 20x the number of people in the US march to march than the flu typically does over a year - and that is WITH masking, and lockdowns, and vaccines. The thing to fear is covid, not it's vaccine.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-17-2021, 04:44 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    Not here. Even if you've had both vaccines you still have to wear a mask, and in my province they only started to open up last week. Still a lot of restrictions here. So I guess the info from the CDC several weeks ago about not having to wear a mask if you've had both shots has been ignored, and we have been told we will likely have to continue to wear masks until "at least" September".
    In deference to those that are not yet vaccinated? Do you have problems with vaccine supply or people not being willing to be vaccinated where you are? The Delta variant makes it a good bit more dangerous right now if you have a large population that is not yet vaccinated regardless of the cause.

    Leave a comment:


  • mossrose
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    No, it's a fact that the China flu vaccines are still in the experimental stage and were only approved for emergency use. If you wish to dispute this, then feel free to present evidence of long-term testing and FDA approval.

    It's also a fact that a disproportionate number of negative outcomes from the China flu vaccine have been submitted to the VAERS database.

    In the latest round of tests currently being conducted on subjects as young as 16, it has been found that there is a considerable risk of heart enlargement.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/10/covi...cond-shot.html

    As if the short term risks weren't bad enough, we still don't know what the long-term consequence will be from this rush to inject people with a dangerous, experimental vaccine.

    As the saying goes, we live in interesting times.
    This whole thing reminds me of the Thalidomide given to pregnant women in the late '50's and early '60's. Sold aggressively to woman who were pregnant or became pregnant, it was a disaster.

    I feel so much like we are at risk of repeating that sort of thing. Especially when we have people castigating us for not choosing to get the vaccine.

    Leave a comment:


  • mossrose
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    Is she in below 18 set, or just took a while to get it started? My youngest is over 18 but had to wait a while to become eligable - has had it I guess maybe a month now, not sure. It's nice when everyone in the house has been vaccinated. You can go out to eat in a group and not worry about it and no-one needs to wear a mask.
    Not here. Even if you've had both vaccines you still have to wear a mask, and in my province they only started to open up last week. Still a lot of restrictions here. So I guess the info from the CDC several weeks ago about not having to wear a mask if you've had both shots has been ignored, and we have been told we will likely have to continue to wear masks until "at least" September".

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    That's not being 'fair', that's just being ignorant.
    No, it's a fact that the China flu vaccines are still in the experimental stage and were only approved for emergency use. If you wish to dispute this, then feel free to present evidence of long-term testing and FDA approval.

    It's also a fact that a disproportionate number of negative outcomes from the China flu vaccine have been submitted to the VAERS database.

    In the latest round of tests currently being conducted on subjects as young as 16, it has been found that there is a considerable risk of heart enlargement.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/10/covi...cond-shot.html

    As if the short term risks weren't bad enough, we still don't know what the long-term consequence will be from this rush to inject people with a dangerous, experimental vaccine.

    As the saying goes, we live in interesting times.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    To be fair, nobody outside of the at-risk population should even think about receiving an experimental vaccine that was approved for emergency use only.
    That's not being 'fair', that's just being ignorant. At this point you are looking for something serious that can remain hidden after hundreds of millions of doses for more that 6 months. While it's not impossible, it's pretty low risk. OTOH, based on spread and deaths per day when we began vaccinating, we would have another 341,000* deaths if we all thought about it like you do.

    *((3400*167 days since jan1 = 567,000 - 216,000 (actual dead since jan 1) - 5343 (people who died after receiving the vaccine without regard as to cause))

    it should be noted that spread and deaths where skyrocketing before the vaccines, and so my estimate of how many more the virus would have killed sans vaccine is likely very low.

    It should also be noted that the 5343 VAERS deaths are without regard to cause. They are patients who died after getting the vaccine but without any sort of assessment of if that death was actually likely to have been vaccine related.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
    Indiana was one of the states doing very well in distributing vaccines, but once we got past the at-risk populations, we seem to have stalled.
    To be fair, nobody outside of the at-risk population should even think about receiving an experimental vaccine that was approved for emergency use only and which has a disproportionately high probability of causing a negative outcome.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Chaotic Void View Post

    Done.
    Thanks! And a very quick response too!

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    She's in the under 16 set, so she just got approved last month.

    Indiana was one of the states doing very well in distributing vaccines, but once we got past the at-risk populations, we seem to have stalled.
    Yep - every state has some part of the population that has been scared more of the vaccine than the virus.

    Here is an interesting assessment of the reasons driving that from march:

    https://www.vox.com/recode/22330018/...acebook-survey

    And another more recent look at it:

    https://www.beaumont.org/health-well...ommon-concerns

    Leave a comment:


  • CivilDiscourse
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    Is she in below 18 set, or just took a while to get it started. My youngest is over 18 but had to wait a while - has had it I guess about a month now.
    She's in the under 16 set, so she just got approved last month.

    Indiana was one of the states doing very well in distributing vaccines, but once we got past the at-risk populations, we seem to have stalled.

    Leave a comment:

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