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Delta Variant

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    It seems that those giddy over the prospect of an even deadlier version of the China flu may have been celebrating prematurely...

    "This COVID variant will be the one to really get us. No, it's this one. Well, Alpha, Beta, and Gamma weren't a problem, but I promise you 'the Delta' spells the end of civilization."

    That is essentially the panic porn dressed up as science that we have been treated to ever since the virus declined in January following the winter spread, which appears to have given us a great deal of herd immunity. Despite the advent of the British and South African variants, cases, not to mention fatalities, have continued to plummet in all of the places where those variants were supposedly common. Which is why they are now repeating the same mantra about the "Delta" variant from India.

    [...]

    However, if people would actually look at the data, they'd realize that the Delta variant is actually less deadly. [...] the Delta variant has a 0.1% case fatality rate (CFR) out of 31,132 Delta sequence infections confirmed by investigators. That is the same rate as the flu and is much lower than the CFR for the ancestral strain or any of the other variants. And as we know, the CFR is always higher than the infection fatality rate (IFR), because many of the mildest and asymptomatic infections go undocumented, while the confirmed cases tend to have a bias toward those who are more evidently symptomatic.

    In other words, Delta is literally the flu with a CFR identical to it. This is exactly what every respiratory pandemic has done through history: morphed into more transmissible and less virulent form that forces the other mutations out since you get that one. Nothing about masks, lockdowns, or experimental shots did this. To the extent this really is more transmissible, it's going to be less deadly, as is the case with the common cold. To the extent that there are areas below the herd immunity threshold (for example, in Scotland and the northwestern parts of the U.K.) they will likely get the Delta variant (until something else supplants it), but fatalities will continue to go down.

    According to the above-mentioned report, the Delta variant represented more than 75% of all cases in the U.K. since mid-May. If it really was that deadly, it should have been wreaking havoc over the past few weeks.

    You can see almost a perfect inverse relationship between hospitalization rates throughout April and May plummeting as the Delta variant became the dominant strain of the virus in England. Some areas might see a slight oscillation from time to time as herd immunity fills in, regardless of which variant is floating around. However, the death burden is well below that of a flu season and is no longer an epidemic.

    As for vaccines, there is no evidence that somehow they provide better protection than prior infection from any other strain of the virus, nor does the Delta variant justify further use of these experimental shots. If anything, the U.K. data show that, to the extent there were deaths due to the Delta variant, there were more fatalities among those already vaccinated relative to the number of confirmed cases by vaccination status.

    Again, the numbers are low across the board and there is no evidence the Delta variant is anything but less deadly for anyone. But there is certainly no evidence that somehow the vaccine is a greater imperative because of this variant. India itself appears to have achieved herd immunity – with the WHO estimating infection rates between 60% and 75% in most places – with one-seventh the death rate of England, but with one-fourth the percentage of people who have receive one dose of the vaccine.

    Thus, the good news is that now that most countries have reached a large degree of herd immunity, there is zero threat of hospitals being overrun by any seasonal increase in various areas, no matter the variant. The bad news is that after Delta, there are Epsilon and 19 other letters of the Greek alphabet, which will enable the circuitous cycle of misinformation, fear, panic, and control to continue. And remember, as there is already a "Delta+," the options are endless until our society finally achieves immunity to COVID panic porn.

    https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horow...ly#toggle-gdpr

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  • Roy
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Will it? Based on what I've read, the vaccine might actually be forcing unusual mutations of the China flu that are different from natural mutations.
    Based on what you've read, skin cells don't respond to stimuli and the Egyptian pyramids are in the Antarctic.
    Last edited by Roy; 06-24-2021, 08:02 AM.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    CTH has received anecdotal and unconfirmed reports the Johnson and Johnson COVID vaccine has been pulled from the market. Three independent reports, from 3 different retail pharmacies, have highlighted instructions to send back the J&J vaccine. If we find out more about this we will let you know ASAP.

    Per earlier reporting from media, there was supposed to be an emergency FDA/CDC/NIH meeting this Friday about substantial reports of vaccine side-effects. Perhaps the J&J recall (not yet publicized) is related; unknown. In the interim, The World Health Organization (WHO) is now recommending that children SHOULD NOT get the vaccine: {LINK}.

    WHO – […] Children should not be vaccinated for the moment. There is not yet enough evidence on the use of vaccines against COVID-19 in children to make recommendations for children to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults. However, children should continue to have the recommended childhood vaccines. (link)

    That’s a pretty profound change in direction from the WHO with little publicity about it. Something seemingly sketchy appears to be going on in the background.

    How can colleges and schools require a COVID vaccine when the WHO is now recommending against it?

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...cine-recalled/

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Unfortunately, there are some situations were one has no choice but to hit back...
    You are a master at justifying your own hypocrisy, that much is certain.

    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    This sort of derogatory tit for tat disgusts me...
    Then why did you start it?

    I also can't help but notice you didn't even attempt to counter the argument I presented based on publicly available data and instead launched into another personal attack, all the while ironically accusing me of the very behavior that you yourself have engaged in throughout this thread. One begins to get the idea that you really don't want to discuss these matters and instead simply want people to agree with you. Maybe you should consider writing a blog with the comment feature disabled instead of posting in a discussion forum.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 06-21-2021, 12:01 PM.

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  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Oh, please. Don't step into the ring swinging and then start crying when your opponent dares to hit back.
    Unfortunately, there are some situations were one has no choice but to hit back:


    Same old MM playbook - when the ad hom doesn't work, pretend the opponent is a cry baby.

    I'm pointing out you don't have 1 useful word of actual argument to make. You're just a political hack that barely knows how to do basic math and couldn't parse a scientific paper if his life depended on it.

    Your problem is that you've been taken in by the "settled science" con
    How would you know MM? You are the fellow that argued page after page that the Trump inauguration photos were altered and couldn't comprehend the most basic algebra associated with simple optical perspective.

    and are resistant to any ideas and evidence that go against what you've been led to believe is the "scientific consensus" (which is a political term that has nothing to do with actual science). The plain facts are the China flu vaccines are one of the most dangerous medications to be widely used in many years with a disproportionately high rate of reported negative outcomes, far higher than the combined reports in VAERS about all other medications in the past decade and with an incidence rate far higher than what has been sufficient for other medications to be recalled in the recent past. These vaccines are still considered experimental and were approved for emergency use only, meaning only for those who are at the highest risk and for whom other therapies are not viable. Furthermore, it is impossible to know what the long-term risks of these experimental vaccines are simply because they have not been around long enough to be subjected to the years of testing that most medications are required to undergo prior to being considered fit for general use.
    Yep - that's the ticket. The Covid-19 vaccines are "One of the most dangerous medications to be widely used in many years ..."

    THAT needs to go up on the wall of 'the most innately stupid statements ever made on TWEB.

    However, that said, that is all I'm going to say to you MM on this topic. This sort of derogatory tit for tat disgusts me, and I'm ending this round now.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-21-2021, 11:43 AM.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    And there you go - MM ad hom 101. He can't deal with the concepts or the argument, so he just calls whoever he talks to a derogatory name.
    Oh, please. Don't step into the ring swinging and then start crying when your opponent dares to hit back.

    Your problem is that you've been taken in by the "settled science" con and are resistant to any ideas and evidence that go against what you've been led to believe is the "scientific consensus" (which is a political term that has nothing to do with actual science). The plain facts are the China flu vaccines are one of the most dangerous medications to be widely used in many years with a disproportionately high rate of reported negative outcomes, far higher than the combined reports in VAERS about all other medications in the past decade and with an incidence rate far higher than what has been sufficient for other medications to be recalled in the recent past. These vaccines are still considered experimental and were approved for emergency use only, meaning only for those who are at the highest risk and for whom other therapies are not viable. Furthermore, it is impossible to know what the long-term risks of these experimental vaccines are simply because they have not been around long enough to be subjected to the years of testing that most medications are required to undergo prior to being considered fit for general use.

    Now you can whoop and holler and play the cry-bully all you want, but those of us unwilling to be test subjects under this scenario are not "anti-science" or "anti-vaccine" but are simply exercising common sense in response to the facts.

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  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    So basically, you're a hypocrite, but then, we already knew that.
    And there you go - MM ad hom 101. He can't deal with the concepts or the argument, so he just calls whoever he talks to a derogatory name.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    You make it up as you go along MM, and its all ad hom without an ounce of substance, which is what I called out in the first place. And the reason I call it out has nothing to do with 'cry-bully' - it has to do with the fact you are unwilling to engage on an objective basis. You have no substantive arguments, so you play attack the person to try to distract from the fact you have nothing of substance to say.

    Shall we repeat. I called you on your attempts to foist pseudo science as fact exactly for what they were and explained why they were not valid. I called you on you anti- vaccine rhetoric. You're response was mockery ( see my sig ) and you haven't had one word of actual substance in the entire conversation, just ad hom.

    My appeal to you is to stop doing that and finally actually start trying to learn something about the actual science.

    Now you are on a crusade to spread pseudo scientific misinformation about covid and the covid vaccines. And I'm not going to sit idly by and say nothing about il. So as long as you are intent on the promotion of ignorance as your primary motivation, we will be at odds. And as long as you are willing to use ad hom instead of logic and reason to try to silence me, then our conversations will be messy and nasty.

    Sometimes there just isn't any other way to stand for truth and knowledge than to be in conflict with those committed to misinformation and pseudo-science.
    So basically, you're a hypocrite, but then, we already knew that.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Stop with the cry-bully routine, ox. I didn't "attack" you personally until after you made it personal by repeatedly attacking me, and when I finally hit back, it was far milder than the shots you had been taking at me. Try taking stock of your own conduct before pointing the finger at anybody else.
    You make it up as you go along MM, and its all ad hom without an ounce of substance, which is what I called out in the first place. And the reason I call it out has nothing to do with 'cry-bully' - it has to do with the fact you are unwilling to engage on an objective basis. You have no substantive arguments, so you play attack the person to try to distract from the fact you have nothing of substance to say.

    Shall we repeat. I called you on your attempts to foist pseudo science as fact exactly for what they were and explained why they were not valid. I called you on you anti- vaccine rhetoric. You're response was mockery ( see my sig ) and you haven't had one word of actual substance in the entire conversation, just ad hom.

    My appeal to you is to stop doing that and finally actually start trying to learn something about the actual science.

    Now you are on a crusade to spread pseudo scientific misinformation about covid and the covid vaccines. And I'm not going to sit idly by and say nothing about il. So as long as you are intent on the promotion of ignorance as your primary motivation, we will be at odds. And as long as you are willing to use ad hom instead of logic and reason to try to silence me, then our conversations will be messy and nasty.

    Sometimes there just isn't any other way to stand for truth and knowledge than to be in conflict with those committed to misinformation and pseudo-science.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-20-2021, 10:14 PM.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    Sure. Calling out a factual history of reliance on conspiracy theories is the same as calling people names. Now I get you might be insulted by discussing your record wrt science, the vaccines, and covid, but that is not the same thing as blatantly and pointlessly calling people names. What I have said is perhaps insulting, but it is the simple truth.

    I have no desire to tear you down. But I do not have any idea how to stop the cycle of hostility with you. If I challenge the ideas in your posts factually, you go for a personal attack.
    Stop with the cry-bully routine, ox. I didn't "attack" you personally until after you made it personal by repeatedly attacking me, and when I finally hit back, it was far milder than the shots you had been taking at me. Try taking stock of your own conduct before pointing the finger at anybody else.

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  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Read this thread, ox. You will notice that it wasn't until post #61 that I said anything that could be construed as an insult, and that's only after you repeatedly laid into me throughout this discussion, so spare us your usual hypocritical blather and get your own house in order.
    Sure. Calling out a factual history of reliance on conspiracy theories is the same as calling people names. Now I get you might be insulted by discussing your record wrt science, the vaccines, and covid, but that is not the same thing as blatantly and pointlessly calling people names. What I have said is perhaps insulting, but it is the simple truth.

    I have no desire to tear you down. But I do not have any idea how to stop the cycle of hostility with you. If I challenge the ideas in your posts factually, you go for a personal attack.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    you do realize that with very few exceptions the only time you write a post to me is for the expressed purpose of delivering an insult, or tearing me down in one way or the other - right?

    As for my interactions with MM - you need to really take stock of who it is you are supporting, and who it is you are cutting down. MM is at the top of the food chain on this web site when it comes to tearing others down and hurling insults. At my best (worst) I would only equal his everyday antics.

    and finally, my sig line has to do with mockery, not words that may or may not be insulting. And while it is possible the two categories may have a small overlap, very little in these posts, excepting MM's comments about the scientific establishment, even comes close to falling into that category. And even that is not really what my sig is addressing.
    Read this thread, ox. You will notice that it wasn't until post #61 that I said anything that could be construed as an insult, and that's only after you repeatedly laid into me throughout this discussion, so spare us your usual hypocritical blather and get your own house in order.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post



    You set such a good example - right?
    Mossy, I don't tear you down when I post to you, even when that is all you've done to me.

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  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    But you don't understand, it's okay when he does it!
    There you go. Exhibit 1: mockery.

    Leave a comment:


  • mossrose
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    you do realize that with very few exceptions the only time you write a post to me is for the expressed purpose of delivering an insult, or tearing me down in one way or the other - right?


    You set such a good example - right?

    Leave a comment:

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