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  • #46
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    We are dealing with vaccine supply issues all the time. There are a lot of people getting vaccinated when the supply is available. My province. as of either yesterday or Tuesday, is about 45,000 people short of the 75% of the population they want vaccinated with at least one dose.

    And now they have lotteries to get people to be vaccinated, which I think is ridiculous. Because so much money has already been thrown at covid, and this will come right out of the taxpayers pockets like all of it will, and just put us all further in debt.
    A small error here on my part. The province wants 70% vaccinated with one dose, not 75.

    As of this morning we are 6000 doses short of that, and those should be completed, and more, by the end of today. Then after a 2 week waiting period, the province will enter stage 3 of reopening.

    I guess we received a million doses of Moderna yesterday........to be shared by the whole country, so don't know how far they will stretch. There may be more of the Pfizer kicking around,, but I'm not sure.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Ronson View Post

      I would consider that a good argument against vaccination, if they don't suffer much from it. Like being vaccinated against the common cold.
      So now you know why we vaccinated the very old, weak and infirm first.
      Now every body over 40 yrs and willing is getting it.

      What is the government debating about? Forcing the issue?
      No.
      Before folks as young as teens are offered it as standard, there needs to be a debate about natural resistance in youth, any increased risks for youth, etc.
      That's what our Parliament is for..... Debating and voting.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by eider View Post
        So now you know why we vaccinated the very old, weak and infirm first.
        Now every body over 40 yrs and willing is getting it.


        No.
        Before folks as young as teens are offered it as standard, there needs to be a debate about natural resistance in youth, any increased risks for youth, etc.
        That's what our Parliament is for..... Debating and voting.
        I see. Thanks

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Ronson View Post

          I would consider that a good argument against vaccination, if they don't suffer much from it. Like being vaccinated against the common cold.

          What is the government debating about? Forcing the issue?
          One reason for everyone/many as possible to get the vaccine is to limit the variants of the vaccine from developing.

          Let's say all the at-risk people get the vaccine, and all the low-risk people skip it.

          The disease runs rampant in the low-risk group, but it's not that dangerous to them. But as it's running, and replicating, and mutating, it changes. These low-risk people still hang around the high-risk vaccinated people. At some point, one of those mutating variants has mutated enough to successfully bypass the vaccine, and the spreads like wildfire, rendering the vaccine useless.

          The reason "the common cold" isn't vaccinated against, is because there isn't a single "common cold" there's more than 200 viruses that cause symptoms that get written off as "the common cold". The flu, by the same token, has lots of variants and constantly changes, which is why a flu vaccine generally lasts a season.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

            One reason for everyone/many as possible to get the vaccine is to limit the variants of the vaccine from developing.

            Let's say all the at-risk people get the vaccine, and all the low-risk people skip it.

            The disease runs rampant in the low-risk group, but it's not that dangerous to them. But as it's running, and replicating, and mutating, it changes. These low-risk people still hang around the high-risk vaccinated people. At some point, one of those mutating variants has mutated enough to successfully bypass the vaccine, and the spreads like wildfire, rendering the vaccine useless.
            This argument doesn't make sense to me.

            Group A has been vaccinated against COVID1, and Group B has not. That means Group A cannot become sick from COVID1 infection but Group B can. So COVID1 is circulating around in both populations but only one can become sick. So either group can be a potential reservoir for variants and mutations. What you are saying is that mutations only occur in Group B, but I've read no claims of that.

            The reason "the common cold" isn't vaccinated against, is because there isn't a single "common cold" there's more than 200 viruses that cause symptoms that get written off as "the common cold". The flu, by the same token, has lots of variants and constantly changes, which is why a flu vaccine generally lasts a season.
            Actually, I think the common cold mutates too. I've probably had more than 200 colds in my lifetime.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Ronson View Post

              This argument doesn't make sense to me.

              Group A has been vaccinated against COVID1, and Group B has not. That means Group A cannot become sick from COVID1 infection but Group B can. So COVID1 is circulating around in both populations but only one can become sick. So either group can be a potential reservoir for variants and mutations. What you are saying is that mutations only occur in Group B, but I've read no claims of that.
              It's not that mutations can only occur in Group B. It's that Mutations happen during replication. The more replications, the more chances for mutations. So, an unvaccinated group provides a breeding ground for lots of replication, and therefore more mutations.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                It's not that mutations can only occur in Group B. It's that Mutations happen during replication. The more replications, the more chances for mutations. So, an unvaccinated group provides a breeding ground for lots of replication, and therefore more mutations.
                Problem with that explanation is it doesn't seem explain why variants are rising and spreading in \countries that have some of the largest vaccination rates.
                "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  Twice as infectious as the typical covid-19, produces more serious symptoms, and is now 10% of the covid-19 still spreading in the US.

                  Vaccines are effective against it.

                  https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...u-need-to-know


                  If you have not been vaccinated - and especially if you live in an area or with people with extreme vaccine hesitancy or skepticism - GET VACCINATED!
                  I will have to agree. I am glad I am vaccinated.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post

                    Problem with that explanation is it doesn't seem explain why variants are rising and spreading in \countries that have some of the largest vaccination rates.
                    It has been suggested that the vaccines themselves are causing the mutations.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                      It's not that mutations can only occur in Group B. It's that Mutations happen during replication. The more replications, the more chances for mutations. So, an unvaccinated group provides a breeding ground for lots of replication, and therefore more mutations.
                      There is a problem for our 'group B'!
                      Our group B is infants, juniors, minors and teens. You are probably right about Covid being able to travel through these groups, and mutate, and get nastier, but we don't know if these groups are at greater risk from vaccinations. So we are holding back on vaccinating infants, juniors and minors. Teens may be able to receive the jab, but that was being reviewed last week and I don't know about any decisions.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        It has been suggested that the vaccines themselves are causing the mutations.
                        It's called natural selection. The virus mutates. Mutations that enhance its survival will tend to be the ones that grow and propagate. Any factor that limits spread will cause mutations that enhance its capability to spread to dominate - if you give it the time it needs to do that. Natural immunity will do the exact same thing as vaccine acquired immunity. So what we want is enough immune people the virus can't spread at all so it fades away before it can do an end run around the various kinds of acquired immunity.

                        The more unvacinnated people there are, the more opportunities for it to spread and mutate, the less time between variants and the more likely a mutation occurs that can infect people through the natural or vaccine acquired immunity.

                        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-19-2021, 08:37 AM.
                        Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by seanD View Post

                          Problem with that explanation is it doesn't seem explain why variants are rising and spreading in \countries that have some of the largest vaccination rates.
                          It's still random. If you put enough ammunition down range, you are bound to hit something. But, you could get lucky and hit something with the 5th bullet instead of the 100th.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            Natural immunity will do the exact same thing as vaccine acquired immunity.
                            Will it? Based on what I've read, the vaccine might actually be forcing unusual mutations of the China flu that are different from natural mutations. Remember, we are talking about experimental medications employing relatively new mRNA technology which has never been used in human vaccines before, so who knows what effects it's going to have.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                              I would consider that a good argument against vaccination, if they don't suffer much from it. Like being vaccinated against the common cold.

                              They are still contagious. they can spread the virus and kill people.
                              Last edited by Backup; 06-19-2021, 11:33 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                                Will it? Based on what I've read, the vaccine might actually be forcing unusual mutations of the China flu that are different from natural mutations. Remember, we are talking about experimental medications employing relatively new mRNA technology which has never been used in human vaccines before, so who knows what effects it's going to have.
                                I'm sure you read that somewhere given the sources you use.
                                Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

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