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Tucker's FBI conspiracy theory

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  • #16
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    Unfortunately that is a very big question.

    First, given that the country (especially congress) is horrendously and aggressively partisan, I don't trust the ability of members of congress to investigate something that can be used to score points against their opponents. It creates too much opportunism to omit, spin, or mislead the public.

    I also do not see January 6th as being an isolated incident. I believe January 6th is the culmination of this rise of use of political violence. There has been low-level political violence since Trump was elected, from liberals and republicans alike. The entire summer of 2020 was full of political violence, often violence that went un-punished. I believe that without the normalization of political violence, especially during the summer, there likely would not have been a January 6th. Unfortunately, democrats wanted to investigate the 6th as an isolated incident that occurred in a vacuum.

    So, do I believe there should be a congressional investigation? No. I don't even want a bipartisan investigation. I however would not mind a completely independent, impartial investigation into January 6th, and the political violence that led up to it.
    Who exactly would set up such an "independent, impartial investigation"?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by seer View Post

      Why would we trust a Democrat lead congress?
      We could wait until there is a Republican lead congress, but then I would have no reason to trust it.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Stoic View Post

        Who exactly would set up such an "independent, impartial investigation"?
        I could trust a bipartisan group of senators to set it up and then let it go. Yes, there's always the follow on question of "how can you be certain that THIS group of people won't be partisan." And there's always the risk. You can set it up so that there's equal Dem and GOP members in the set-up group, and that to appoint someone to the actual investigation it has to be a 2/3 vote. That would ensure that whoever ends up on the investigation was able to be approved by both GOP and Democrats. If the two sides can't even agree on investigators, it would go a long way towards showing that the investigation is more about partisanship than it is about really finding the truth.

        But, we've seen over the last two administrations what a "bipartisan" style of investigation does. The two sides don't agree, and they end up putting out dueling partisan investigation reports, whichever side had the majority puts out the official one (and it of course supports their side), and the minority side puts out a rebuttle report (which of course supports its own interests). Then partisan supporters latch on to the results that their side produced, and nothing really happens.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Stoic View Post

          We could wait until there is a Republican lead congress, but then I would have no reason to trust it.
          Congress should not be involved regardless of who is charge. Period.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Stoic View Post

            We could wait until there is a Republican lead congress, but then I would have no reason to trust it.
            stalemate then...
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              In the bigger picture the intellectually honest will admit it is impossible for Antifa to exist if the institutions of the DOJ and FBI were functioning normally as part of the national law enforcement system.

              A few dozen arrests for transparently obvious violence, combined with a few RICO cases against the financial systems that support Antifa, and the entire violent group and support network essentially disappears. Therefore, it is worth accepting the obvious…. The DOJ and FBI are part of the support structure that allows political violence to exist.

              I would personally take it (confidently) a step further and say: Antifa simply could not exist without the explicit support of the DOJ/FBI.

              Sometimes that support comes in the way of willful blindness or ignoring their activity. Regardless of each momentary example, the fact remains – both the DOJ and FBI do absolutely nothing to eliminate specific threats to our domestic tranquility, even when specific individuals carry out extreme violent acts with public visibility and reckless abandon.

              [...]

              Actual, real-life, Domestic Violent Extremists called Black Lives Matter and Antifa, tried to burn Washington DC in the summer of 2020. Not a single arrest. Not one. Not a single public FBI tweet about “help us find those arsonists who attempted to burn St. John’s church”. Nothing.

              The DOJ and FBI willfully and purposefully turn a blind eye to literal acts of domestic violence, shootings, beatings, arson, murder, riots and chaos -even attacks on federal buildings- and do nothing. NOTHING.

              Just like federal contractors purposefully given the keys to NSA/FBI databases to exploit and extract information for political targeting, so too is Antifa essentially operating as a federal contractor for domestic violence.

              In essence, the FBI is Antifa…. and before that the FBI was Occupy…. and before that the FBI was supporting the 2007 SEIU/AFSCME political thugs. Go ahead and prove me wrong, but you better bring receipts; because there is a mountain of historical evidence to support my position.

              Russia has a state police that CNN, the New York Times and Washington Post likes to talk about as a negative attribute to the former communist bloc. However, The United States has the FBI. Go ahead and tell me the difference between Russian “state police”, and the FBI as U.S. “state police“?

              The FBI controls who gets security clearances for key positions in the U.S. government that require them. The FBI controls the investigations to support the clearance application. Knowing what you know about how the FBI operates: wouldn’t the FBI use that authority as a filtering tool against any entity who would disrupt or dismantle their power structure? Of course they do, there have been articles written about the delays and denials of security clearances with no legitimate reasoning.

              If you start from the framework that the FBI as an institution is a political operation intent on protecting the currently corrupt systems that function as weapons within the United States government, then of course they would organize, coordinate and conduct subversive operations against groups and individuals they perceive as their enemy.

              The largest recent example was their operation(s) against presidential candidate Donald Trump. That campaign included 50 FBI agents later assigned to the Weissmann/Mueller operation to create an obstruction case against President Trump in order to remove him from office.

              That’s FIFTY FBI agents participating in the Mueller operation. Not a single one of those fifty FBI agents ever spoke out EVEN AFTER all evidence surfaced about how the FBI was manipulating the evidence inside the investigation itself. [Example: Chris Steele’s primary sub-source refuting the Steele dossier to the investigative agents, yet the FBI/DOJ continued with the Title-1 surveillance warrant, FISA renewals, against Carter Page.]

              The FBI is a corrupt ideological institution that targets their political opposition. Of course the FBI planned, organized, assisted and in some ways carried out the January 6th operation to create the exact narrative currently being used to grant them more authority.

              Do you think the FBI would be publicly behaving like this (picture below 2020) if they were not a politically ideological institution?

              fbi-takes-a-knee.jpg

              https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ludes-the-fbi/
              Boom.

              I think this post gets right to the heart of the matter.

              As per the OP, the fact they had a hand in provoking the January riot takes this to another level of ominous than even I had thought of the FBI. What was the intent to provoke such a riot at the Capitol? Was it just for them stay relevant by perpetrating the "domestic terrorist" boogieman narrative?
              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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              • #22
                Originally posted by seer View Post

                stalemate then...
                Yeah, I've got a feeling we're never going to agree even on the basic facts.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                  Yeah, I've got a feeling we're never going to agree even on the basic facts.
                  Well since MY facts are always correct I think you are right...
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seer View Post

                    Well since MY facts are always correct I think you are right...
                    Seer, what's your opinion about what Tucker lays out about the FBI in the OP and its involvement in Jan. 6th?
                    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post

                      Seer, what's your opinion about what Tucker lays out about the FBI in the OP and its involvement in Jan. 6th?
                      Not enough information yet, though it is not out of the realm of possibility.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post

                        Seer, what's your opinion about what Tucker lays out about the FBI in the OP and its involvement in Jan. 6th?
                        I don't understand why people take Tucker seriously.

                        "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes." -- U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil

                        That's clearly an overstatement, since some people obviously still think Tucker is quite credible.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                          I don't understand why people take Tucker seriously.

                          "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes." -- U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil

                          That's clearly an overstatement, since some people obviously still think Tucker is quite credible.
                          The only conservatives I know who don't think Tucker is highly credible are the ones who think FNC generally is too moderate, and prefer OANN and Newsmax.
                          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                          Beige Nationalist.

                          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                            The only conservatives I know who don't think Tucker is highly credible are the ones who think FNC generally is too moderate, and prefer OANN and Newsmax.
                            That is sad.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                              I don't understand why people take Tucker seriously.

                              "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes." -- U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil

                              That's clearly an overstatement, since some people obviously still think Tucker is quite credible.
                              That argument never made much sense to me.

                              Maybe you take folks like Maddow and Stelter credible and thus rely on their every word, but I would imagine most conservatives on here don't take anyone "seriously." At least I can say this of myself. It's not the messenger, it's the message. I don't need to rely on the credibility of the messenger when I can research for myself whether the message they convey is credible or not. I just need the messenger to give me information I may not have been privy to, like the message Tucker just relayed that I didn't know about prior.
                              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by seer View Post

                                Not enough information yet, though it is not out of the realm of possibility.
                                Fair enough.

                                I knew about this next story long before Tucker's piece, but I think now it suits the subject quite well. That would make for one heck of a coincidence if the two aren't related...


                                Former FBI official, a Navy veteran, is ‘key figure’ in Jan. 6 riot, prosecutors allege

                                A former U.S. Navy intelligence officer and FBI official from Virginia has emerged as a “key figure” in the federal investigation of the Jan. 6 Capitol breach, as U.S. prosecutors alleged Thursday that he organized a group of trained fighters and was in contact with self-styled militia groups including the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and Three Percenters.

                                In asking a federal judge to detain Thomas Edward Caldwell, 66, pending trial, prosecutors revealed some of the most explicit evidence to date of discussions allegedly indicating coordination and planning among groups under scrutiny for the assault on Congress that left one police officer and four others dead, delayed the confirmation of President Biden’s victory and led to charges against more than 200 people.

                                Prosecutors allege Caldwell used his military and law enforcement background to plan violence — including possible snipers and weapons stashed on a boat along the
                                Potomac River — weeks ahead of the Capitol insurrection. Caldwell, of
                                Berryville, Va., is charged on counts of conspiracy, obstructing an official proceeding, trespassing, destruction of government property, and aiding and abetting.


                                "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                                Comment

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