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"go, sell all that you have and give to the poor..."

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I have just looked at the list of members and there are 68 pages at 10 names per page [not all members are of course Christian] so the Christians here are not particularly representative of the millions of Christians within the USA plenty of whom must finance these people directly or indirectly in order for them to enjoy their lifestyles.
    And yet here you are posting it on this website obviously wanting a reaction from the membership. And when you get it, and it is not exactly as you had hoped, you snivel about it being "not particularly representative of the millions of Christians within the USA."


    So in short summary...




    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    FYI: "Video unavailable
    The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      And yet here you are posting it on this website obviously wanting a reaction from the membership. And when you get it, and it is not exactly as you had hoped, you snivel about it being "not particularly representative of the millions of Christians within the USA."


      So in short summary...





      FYI: "Video unavailable
      The uploader has not made this video available in your country."
      Reminds me of posting here then commenting that it was "interesting" that the responders were men.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by mossrose View Post
        It's really unfortunate that HA completely misses the point of the message Jesus was giving to the rich young ruler.

        The lesson was that the love of wealth was stronger in him than any desire to serve the Lord he may have had. Jesus was showing that the young man loved his riches more than he loved his neighbours. And since he wouldn't submit to the Lordship of Christ no matter what was asked of him, he wouldn't acknowledge his sin and repent, so he wouldn't submit to the Saviour.

        Jesus was neither making philanthropy nor poverty a requirement for salvation,
        Moreover, that advice was given to a very specific person, a tax collector -- a profession where, back then, much of your wealth could be termed ill-begotten. It wasn't general advice. Nicodemus was obviously fairly well-off, and there is no record of him having been told to sell all that you have and give to the poor. In fact, I would think that if he had, and obeyed, then he wouldn't likely have had tomb space to offer.

        You don't have to impoverish yourself to follow Jesus.



        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

          Reminds me of posting here then commenting that it was "interesting" that the responders were men.
          A clumsily transparent tactic designed to belittle and minimalize their opinions as less than legitimate.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Moreover, that advice was given to a very specific person, a tax collector -- a profession where, back then, much of your wealth could be termed ill-begotten. It wasn't general advice. Nicodemus was obviously fairly well-off, and there is no record of him having been told to sell all that you have and give to the poor. In fact, I would think that if he had, and obeyed, then he wouldn't likely have had tomb space to offer.

            You don't have to impoverish yourself to follow Jesus.

            Show me where this text mentions that the rich man [no mention of a young ruler] was a tax collector.

            As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 18 Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; You shall not defraud; Honor your father and mother.’” 20 He said to him, “Teacher, I have kept all these since my youth.” 21 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, “You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money[c] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.” 22 When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
              It's really unfortunate that HA completely misses the point of the message Jesus was giving to the rich young ruler.
              Where does the Greek say he was a "rich young ruler"?

              Originally posted by mossrose View Post

              The lesson was that the love of wealth was stronger in him than any desire to serve the Lord he may have had. Jesus was showing that the young man loved his riches more than he loved his neighbours. And since he wouldn't submit to the Lordship of Christ no matter what was asked of him, he wouldn't acknowledge his sin and repent, so he wouldn't submit to the Saviour. Jesus was neither making philanthropy nor poverty a requirement for salvation,
              Well that is one interpretation.

              Another is that the man represented all those who hold to their earthly possessions and in order to follow an ascetic Jewish teacher all material wealth had to be rejected.

              Hence when he sends his disciples out in Matthew 10.9-10 "Take no gold, or silver, or copper in your belts, 10 no bag for your journey, or two tunics, or sandals, or a staff;" and Luke 10.4-6 Carry no purse, no bag, no sandals; .

              He does not tell them to take their credit cards!
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                Show me where this text mentions that the rich man [no mention of a young ruler] was a tax collector.

                As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 18 Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; You shall not defraud; Honor your father and mother.’” 20 He said to him, “Teacher, I have kept all these since my youth.” 21 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, “You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money[c] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.” 22 When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
                Thinking of a tradition not something explicitly recorded in the Bible.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  Where does the Greek say he was a "rich young ruler"?

                  Well that is one interpretation.

                  Another is that the man represented all those who hold to their earthly possessions and in order to follow an ascetic Jewish teacher all material wealth had to be rejected.

                  Hence when he sends his disciples out in Matthew 10.9-10 "Take no gold, or silver, or copper in your belts, 10 no bag for your journey, or two tunics, or sandals, or a staff;" and Luke 10.4-6 Carry no purse, no bag, no sandals; .

                  He does not tell them to take their credit cards!
                  Its interesting that a non Christian keeps informing others what the "correct" interpretation of thier holy book is.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                    Grifters always target those that are most vulnerable. This is common in every religion and cult (heck, just look at BLM) where belief/adherence to a doctrine is central.
                    We can agree that BLM is strangely cultish and has little to do with helping American Blacks. I think almost everyone agrees that black people should be treated equally under the law and, of course, their lives matter as much anyone else's. But it always seems to come down to reciting the mantra.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      Where does the Greek say he was a "rich young ruler"?

                      Well that is one interpretation.

                      Another is that the man represented all those who hold to their earthly possessions and in order to follow an ascetic Jewish teacher all material wealth had to be rejected.

                      Hence when he sends his disciples out in Matthew 10.9-10 "Take no gold, or silver, or copper in your belts, 10 no bag for your journey, or two tunics, or sandals, or a staff;" and Luke 10.4-6 Carry no purse, no bag, no sandals; .

                      He does not tell them to take their credit cards!
                      As Acts Acts 12:12; 16:40; Romans 16:3-5; Colossians 4:15; I Timothy 6:17makes clear some Christians (including John Mark -- the first reference) still owned property and their own homes, allowing them to be used upon occasion as meeting places for the church. If that concept were to be followed to the letter all Christians would have to be homeless and be itinerant. In fact, if you take a look at Acts 5 it is clear that Ananias and Sapphira could have kept some of their money.

                      Craig Blomberg, a Distinguished Professor of the New Testament at Denver Seminary, wrote Neither Poverty Nor Riches: A Biblical Theology of Possession provides a comprehensive examination of the roles of possessions with Christians, did an analysis into the issues of poverty and wealth which I recommend.

                      For instance his analysis of Acts 2 he concludes that the circumstances weren't one where all the goods were sold all at once but was rather a periodic selling of property (noting the phrase "from time to time" used by the NIV translation in Acts 4:34) only as the need arose.

                      This was not a one-time divestiture of all one’s possessions. The theme 'according to need,' reappears, too. Interestingly, what does not appear in this paragraph is any statement of complete equality among believers. Presumably, there was quite a spectrum, ranging from those who still held property not sold (cf. the reference to the home of John Mark in Acts 12:12) all the way to those who were still living at a very basic level.33 But the church was committed to taking the principle of Deuteronomy 15:4 very seriously: 'there should be no poor among you' (F. Martin 1972: 46).


                      While he is rightfully critical of the materialism pervasive in Western culture, particularly among Christians since that is his focus, he tends to balance it with plenty of reminders that the Bible often speaks of material possessions being a blessing from God.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Backup View Post

                        We can agree that BLM is strangely cultish and has little to do with helping American Blacks. I think almost everyone agrees that black people should be treated equally under the law and, of course, their lives matter as much anyone else's. But it always seems to come down to reciting the mantra.
                        Welcome to Tweb

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                          Its interesting that a non Christian keeps informing others what the "correct" interpretation of thier holy book is.
                          She's not unique. Richard Dawkins has a habit of doing so.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Thinking of a tradition not something explicitly recorded in the Bible.
                            So nothing but speculation then?
                            Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 06-13-2021, 02:41 PM.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                              Its interesting that a non Christian keeps informing others what the "correct" interpretation of thier holy book is.
                              Read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote!

                              I offered an alternative interpretation of that text. I made allegation that my interpretation was the "correct" interpretation. As a point of information there is no such thing as a "correct" interpretation of these texts.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                Read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote!

                                I offered an alternative interpretation of that text. I made allegation that my interpretation was the "correct" interpretation. As a point of information there is no such thing as a "correct" interpretation of these texts.
                                And no Christian in their right mind would listen to your interpretation of scripture over generations of learned men who have studied the original languages, and who agree with each other that the conclusions they have come to are correct.

                                But, we all know that you can't see past the end of your ignorance.


                                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                                Comment

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