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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    Pardon?'
    You've repeatedly argued that there is no correct interpretation so when you proclaim that "what I have postulated is clear from the text" means as CD pointed out, that your interpretation is clear but incorrect (since according to you correct interpretations do not exist).


    You have again hoisted yourself on your own petard.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      You've repeatedly argued that there is no correct interpretation so when you proclaim that "what I have postulated is clear from the text" means as CD pointed out, that your interpretation is clear but incorrect (since according to you correct interpretations do not exist).


      You have again hoisted yourself on your own petard.
      The words ascribed to Jesus in Mark 10 have a distinct resonance of what is known about the socio-religious and political situation in that period.

      If you want to have a correspondence about that feel free to start a thread.
      Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 06-15-2021, 06:57 AM.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        The words ascribed to Jesus in Mark 10 have a distinct resonance of what is known about the socio-religious and political situation in that period.

        If you want to have a correspondence about that feel free to start a thread.
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        CD there is no correct interpretation of these texts. Do you not understand that?
        So I guess I'll re-word my original observation:

        Its interesting that a non Christian keeps informing others what the "clear" interpretation of their holy book is.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          The words ascribed to Jesus in Mark 10 have a distinct resonance of what is known about the socio-religious and political situation in that period.

          If you want to have a correspondence about that feel free to start a thread.
          Whatever the case, you proclaimed from upon high that NO interpretation is correct, therefore that would include yours as well. According to you, your interpretation is wrong.

          If you disagree, I suggest that you take it up with yourself

          Petard. Meet Hypocrite_Alexandria.

          Hypocrite_Alexandria. Meet petard



          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post



            So I guess I'll re-word my original observation:

            Its interesting that a non Christian keeps informing others what the "clear" interpretation of their holy book is.
            You were right the first time. According to H_A, there is no correct interpretation of Scripture, and that would therefore include her own attempt at interpreting.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • It's amazing (and entertaining) to see the lengths H_A will go to in order to avoid admitting she is wrong about something.


              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                It's amazing (and entertaining) to see the lengths H_A will go to in order to avoid admitting she is wrong about something.
                It happens so often that I'm no longer amazed, although I will admit that it is still rather amusing in a sad, desperate way. Of course, I've always liked dark comedy.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  I accept that the views I have received from Christians here are highly critical of these "millionaire pastors" but I was hoping some of you could think a little more broadly about that issue. The hypocrisy of these individuals in a wider context within Christianity and what makes them so attractive to vast swathes of Christians?

                  The pun is intentional but do you all have to be so parochial?
                  What makes these heretical false prophets so popular is that they promise people that they will be wealthy and never get sick. They call themselves "little gods", and we who are discerning know that the only ones getting wealthy are the prophets and they are not healing anybody.

                  People don't want to hear the true gospel of Jesus Christ. They want feel-good sermons that have little or nothing to do with instruction from God's word, and empty promises that they will be rich and healthy.


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Whatever the case, you proclaimed from upon high that NO interpretation is correct, therefore that would include yours as well. According to you, your interpretation is wrong.

                    If you disagree, I suggest that you take it up with yourself

                    Petard. Meet Hypocrite_Alexandria.

                    Hypocrite_Alexandria. Meet petard

                    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post



                    So I guess I'll re-word my original observation:

                    Its interesting that a non Christian keeps informing others what the "clear" interpretation of their holy book is.


                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    It's amazing (and entertaining) to see the lengths H_A will go to in order to avoid admitting she is wrong about something.
                    As you all appear confused about the interpretation of text let me explain.

                    The words uttered by Jesus in Mark 10.17-22 are clear regarding worldly wealth and following him. Namely to sell all possessions and join him/follow him.

                    The interpretation concerns as to whom those remarks were addressed and what did those remarks mean.

                    Is this simply to be taken as an incident that appears in all three Synoptic gospels [the background of the individual varies – Luke has him as a synagogue ruler or leader]that only relates to this particular character and him alone?

                    Or do those words to this individual have a wider meaning regarding society generally concerning material possessions and the way to the Kingdom of God?


                    Geza Vermes writes:

                    ”The simple yet all inclusive principle conveyed by Jesus here and in some of his parables [...] is absolute priority to be granted to the search for God, and the necessity to sever oneself from every attachment to wealth and all other secular values [Mark 10.23-25; Matt. 19.23-24; Luke 18.24-25 [...] Such attachment can be mastered by faith, the other basic norm constantly emphasised by Jesus. “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God”[...] Jesus’ objection to being called “good” because God alone is entitled to be called good has provoked a great deal of comment among Christian interpreters. The reason for the unease lies in the neat distinction which the saying prima facie stipulates between Jesus and God. In fact the texts under consideration are meant to bring into relief the absolute supremacy of God. In the hyperbolical language of Jesus, if God is called good, no one else is entitled to the same qualification.” [See. The Authentic Gospel of Jesus, Penguin Books. 2003. Chapter 8 “Sayings about the Kingdom of God” pp.287, 288]
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                      What makes these heretical false prophets so popular is that they promise people that they will be wealthy and never get sick.
                      I would certainly consider them pernicious. However, as I pointed to rogue06 this is the problem with the interpretation of biblical texts that refer to "material possessions being a blessing from God". These verses have led to notions about predestination and the Elect. The Elect being those favoured by God and [often] materially "blessed". The damned/sinners being unfavoured by God and poor.
                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        You were right the first time. According to H_A, there is no correct interpretation of Scripture, and that would therefore include her own attempt at interpreting.
                        I have never claimed my interpretations concerning biblical texts were "correct" however, they are as valid as those posted by others on this thread.

                        The known socio-religious and political situation in Judaea in the early first century CE is, of course, another matter entirely.
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          I would certainly consider them pernicious. However, as I pointed to rogue06 this is the problem with the interpretation of biblical texts that refer to "material possessions being a blessing from God". These verses have led to notions about predestination and the Elect. The Elect being those favoured by God and [often] materially "blessed". The damned/sinners being unfavoured by God and poor.
                          The heretical false prophets indeed do make up their own interpretations of scripture, as do many of the atheists here () who like to take things out of context. If a person knows and studies under sound teachers, they will be discerning about this. But so many of the followers of these folk are deceived and don't bother to dig deeper to know the whole of scripture.

                          The elect are those whom God has chosen before time began to come to salvation through faith, but they have no promises to be favoured by God materially or health wise.

                          And the topic of the elect opens a whole other can of worms, so I will not discuss it further here so as not to derail the thread.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            I have never claimed my interpretations concerning biblical texts were "correct"
                            A wise decision for once

                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            however
                            which was immediately squandered.

                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            they are as valid as those posted by others on this thread.
                            You may think that, but the others based theirs on what the text said, while you based yours on things like "Well that is Peter's opinion."



                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post





                              Geza Vermes writes:
                              Where?

                              In what book?

                              And on what pages?

                              In what edition?

                              He's just giving an opinion.


                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Where?

                                In what book?

                                And on what pages?

                                In what edition?
                                Are you blind? I have even put it into blue and highlighted it for you.

                                Geza Vermes writes:

                                ”The simple yet all inclusive principle conveyed by Jesus here and in some of his parables [...] is absolute priority to be granted to the search for God, and the necessity to sever oneself from every attachment to wealth and all other secular values [Mark 10.23-25; Matt. 19.23-24; Luke 18.24-25 [...] Such attachment can be mastered by faith, the other basic norm constantly emphasised by Jesus. “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God”[...] Jesus’ objection to being called “good” because God alone is entitled to be called good has provoked a great deal of comment among Christian interpreters. The reason for the unease lies in the neat distinction which the saying prima facie stipulates between Jesus and God. In fact the texts under consideration are meant to bring into relief the absolute supremacy of God. In the hyperbolical language of Jesus, if God is called good, no one else is entitled to the same qualification.” [See. The Authentic Gospel of Jesus, Penguin Books. 2003. Chapter 8 “Sayings about the Kingdom of God” pp.287, 288]


                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                He's just giving an opinion.
                                Yes he is but his was/is an "informed" opinion.
                                Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 06-15-2021, 10:22 AM.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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