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What Are Birthing People?

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Treated not enabled
    Agree. Unfortunately the sick are running the hospital so to speak. Today's society not only enables such delusions, but actively encourages them and is proud of them. This only serves to remove any treatment options (if you treat them you are being a bigot) and makes it that much harder to help these people to find a way out.

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
    I would say at this time, amongst certain groups of liberals, there is a bit of a desire to claim at least something LGBT adjacency. Given that progressives are hell-bent on dividing people into good and evil Oppressed and Oppressors, and being straight and cis-gendered falls into the Oppressor category, it makes sense that many would claim some other type of sexuality or "gender" in order to not be in the "oppressor" category.
    I think one place to look for people who see it as being as much a statement as anything else is among the parents of so-called prepubescent transgenders. Some of them behave like their children are trophies to be waved under the noses of their friends and neighbors to show them that they will never be as "woke" as them.

    "Oh look how hip and cool I am. I have a prepubescent child who is a transgender activist and you don't." She's worse than one of these obsessive beauty pageant moms.

    An example of this is Avery Jackson's mother who's child was on the cover on National Geographic a couple years ago. Debi Jackson, who has been a transgender activist says that her son/daughter has been transgender since the age of five. Really? At that age a lot of kids think they're a dog or a unicorn. I mean, at the age of five boys and girls barely recognize that there is a difference between boys and girls. At that age they aren't an activist but are being used by parents as a prop to support their beliefs.

    This is a mother who has so screwed up her child that she admits she had to hide all the knives and scissors in the house because she was afraid that Avery would cut off his own penis. All to impress people in her circle.

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    Personally I find that doubtful. At worst, there may be a few of those types. But actual people with transgender issues, that's quite real, and something that should be treated instead of coddled and played along with. I also think there are a lot of people with other mental issues that confuse their issues and think it means they are transgender, etc.. and others who are easily influenced into things. But overall, most of them are people with genuine mental problems. One should also note that the majority of young folks, who experience gender dysphoria, end up having it resolve on its own by the time they clear puberty/into adulthood, if not 'treated' via pumping them with hormones and hormone blockers, etc..
    Treated not enabled

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  • CivilDiscourse
    replied
    I would say at this time, amongst certain groups of liberals, there is a bit of a desire to claim at least something LGBT adjacency. Given that progressives are hell-bent on dividing people into good and evil Oppressed and Oppressors, and being straight and cis-gendered falls into the Oppressor category, it makes sense that many would claim some other type of sexuality or "gender" in order to not be in the "oppressor" category.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    The dysphoria may be part of a small fraction of those who think they can change their gender. But for the majority of those who think so, it is indeed a desire to go against the natural order of gender for the sake of a perverted idea of sexual "freedom".
    Personally I find that doubtful. At worst, there may be a few of those types. But actual people with transgender issues, that's quite real, and something that should be treated instead of coddled and played along with. I also think there are a lot of people with other mental issues that confuse their issues and think it means they are transgender, etc.. and others who are easily influenced into things. But overall, most of them are people with genuine mental problems. One should also note that the majority of young folks, who experience gender dysphoria, end up having it resolve on its own by the time they clear puberty/into adulthood, if not 'treated' via pumping them with hormones and hormone blockers, etc..

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    You can continue with your delusions. And I don't much care. But never accuse me of being in any way similar to Westboro. Or was that hyperbole, too, three times. You are absolutely wrong, and I am not going to engage with you further on the matter. You are unreachable. Just like the Pharisees.
    I think perhaps you might be better served asking yourself why the rhetoric you were using might remind me of what we hear from westboro.

    and maybe take some time to listen to some of yarhouse's comments on the topic.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-11-2021, 08:05 PM.

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  • mossrose
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    Not, it is not 'wrong'. However, we also must recognize that when Jesus encountered sinners, He generally was accepting of them and then taught them the truth, generally being condemned by the religious leaders for associating with them in their own homes and at their gatherings.



    I'm sure this is exactly how Westboro justifies what they do.



    Perhaps you could read some of what I linked to before just pontificating in judgement of what these men are saying about these issues.



    No - actually all I did was give you some links to Christians that have the necessary education and expertise and that are in the middle of these issues and who can provide some perspective as to what is happening and how we can respond to it in a non destructive way.



    No, you didn't call them 'spawn of satan' literally, I would think it obvious that is hyperbole, but you did say this about 'the majority of them':



    Pretty much a blanket judgement of nearly every trans person's motivations and goals as being completely given over to sexual perversion.

    It's a lot more complicated than that Mossrose. And our goal is not to condemn people, but bring them to Christ. So it is important we understand what is actually going on here before we start casting summary judgements on a whole group of people. This particular issue is especially difficult in that regard.
    You can continue with your delusions. And I don't much care. But never accuse me of being in any way similar to Westboro. Or was that hyperbole, too, three times. You are absolutely wrong, and I am not going to engage with you further on the matter. You are unreachable. Just like the Pharisees.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    So apparently telling people the truth about what scripture says is wrong now, based on what worldly "Christians" say we should be saying.
    Not, it is not 'wrong'. However, we also must recognize that when Jesus encountered sinners, He generally was accepting of them and then taught them the truth, generally being condemned by the religious leaders for associating with them in their own homes and at their gatherings.

    I'm sorry, but God's word supersedes anything that you or anybody else says.
    I'm sure this is exactly how Westboro justifies what they do.

    Just because something is "an issue for our culture" doesn't mean we should go along with it. The truth matters, even to people who don't want to hear it. And that is the problem with a lot of Christians today, they so badly want to be accepted by the culture that they will compromise the truth.
    Perhaps you could read some of what I linked to before just pontificating in judgement of what these men are saying about these issues.

    That is what you are doing, oxmixmudd. I don't care what your reasons are, I don't care what you read or think other people should read, God's word is extremely clear about gender and that is all there is. I suggest that you read God's word and see if there are some things it has to say that can inform your position.
    No - actually all I did was give you some links to Christians that have the necessary education and expertise and that are in the middle of these issues and who can provide some perspective as to what is happening and how we can respond to it in a non destructive way.

    I did NOT say that people are the spawn of Satan. You are putting words into my mouth that I did not say. And that is something you accuse people of all the time, so you had best be careful. Satan IS in control of this world, and you, like so many "Christians" haven fallen under his influence in swallowing everything the culture throws at you.
    No, you didn't call them 'spawn of satan' literally, I would think it obvious that is hyperbole, but you did say this about 'the majority of them':

    Originally posted by mossrose
    But for the majority of those who think so, it is indeed a desire to go against the natural order of gender for the sake of a perverted idea of sexual "freedom".
    Pretty much a blanket judgement of nearly every trans person's motivations and goals as being completely given over to sexual perversion.

    It's a lot more complicated than that Mossrose. And our goal is not to condemn people, but bring them to Christ. So it is important we understand what is actually going on here before we start casting summary judgements on a whole group of people. This particular issue is especially difficult in that regard.

    Leave a comment:


  • mossrose
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    Westboro offers nothing but condemnation to the lost over these sexual issues. Your comment was in that spirit, and that is why I made the reference.




    It is unfortunately more common that many of us understand or wish to believe.




    That is a judgement based on ignorance, which is why I offered you some more nuanced Christian perspectives on the issue.



    I do believe Satan is involved here, but perhaps not only in the way you think.

    This is an issue for our culture, just like the rest of the LGBTQ+ things is. Dealing with it by beating people over the head and demeaning them and accusing them of being Satan's spawn is not the way. Hard as it may be, I encourage you to take a look at and listen to some of Mark Yarborough's discussions of this issue from a Christian perspective and see if there are not some things he has to say that can inform your position.
    So apparently telling people the truth about what scripture says is wrong now, based on what worldly "Christians" say we should be saying.

    I'm sorry, but God's word supersedes anything that you or anybody else says.

    Just because something is "an issue for our culture" doesn't mean we should go along with it. The truth matters, even to people who don't want to hear it. And that is the problem with a lot of Christians today, they so badly want to be accepted by the culture that they will compromise the truth.

    That is what you are doing, oxmixmudd. I don't care what your reasons are, I don't care what you read or think other people should read, God's word is extremely clear about gender and that is all there is. I suggest that you read God's word and see if there are some things it has to say that can inform your position.

    I did NOT say that people are the spawn of Satan. You are putting words into my mouth that I did not say. And that is something you accuse people of all the time, so you had best be careful. Satan IS in control of this world, and you, like so many "Christians" haven fallen under his influence in swallowing everything the culture throws at you.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    No. And for you to assume that I somehow follow anything from Westboro is not only in great error, but offensive. I will read scripture only, and use that for my thinking on what God intended male and female to be.
    Westboro offers nothing but condemnation to the lost over these sexual issues. Your comment was in that spirit, and that is why I made the reference.


    True gender dysphoria is not that common,
    It is unfortunately more common that many of us understand or wish to believe.


    it is an excuse.
    That is a judgement based on ignorance, which is why I offered you some more nuanced Christian perspectives on the issue.

    And the push to allow even little children to change their gender out of some imagined dysphoria is vile and evil and smacks of satanic influence in this world that at this point in history belongs to him.
    I do believe Satan is involved here, but perhaps not only in the way you think.

    This is an issue for our culture, just like the rest of the LGBTQ+ things is. Dealing with it by beating people over the head and demeaning them and accusing them of being Satan's spawn is not the way. Hard as it may be, I encourage you to take a look at and listen to some of Mark Yarborough's discussions of this issue from a Christian perspective and see if there are not some things he has to say that can inform your position.

    Leave a comment:


  • seanD
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    Not so. Dysphoria is what drives the diagnosis that engenders support for the change in the medical community. We can debate whether or not that is real, or whether or not altering the outward appearance and custom is the best solution for dealing with the dysphoria itself, but from everything I've read and from anyone I've dealt with dealing with the issue, gender Dysphoria is the first diagnosis that leads to the follow on adjustments to their lives. They are not - in the majority - just people doing this 'for the sake of a perverted idea of sexual "freedom"'.

    For some Christian perspectives on this that are not just derivatives the Westboro Baptist Church viewpoint, see information from Preston Sprinkle https://www.prestonsprinkle.com/

    https://www.amazon.com/Embodied-Tran.../dp/0830781226

    and Mark Yarhouse (Wheaton) https://www.wheaton.edu/academics/fa...mark-yarhouse/

    https://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Gend...87434342&psc=1
    The mask just keeps peeling off, bit by bit.

    Leave a comment:


  • mossrose
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    Not so. Dysphoria is what drives the diagnosis that engenders support for the change in the medical community. We can debate whether or not that is real, or whether or not altering the outward appearance and custom is the best solution for dealing with the dysphoria itself, but from everything I've read and from anyone I've dealt with dealing with the issue, gender Dysphoria is the first diagnosis that leads to the follow on adjustments to their lives. They are not - in the majority - just people doing this 'for the sake of a perverted idea of sexual "freedom"'.

    For some Christian perspectives on this that are not just derivatives the Westboro Baptist Church viewpoint, see information from Preston Sprinkle https://www.prestonsprinkle.com/

    https://www.amazon.com/Embodied-Tran.../dp/0830781226

    and Mark Yarhouse (Wheaton) https://www.wheaton.edu/academics/fa...mark-yarhouse/

    https://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Gend...87434342&psc=1
    No. And for you to assume that I somehow follow anything from Westboro is not only in great error, but offensive. I will read scripture only, and use that for my thinking on what God intended male and female to be.

    True gender dysphoria is not that common, it is an excuse. And the push to allow even little children to change their gender out of some imagined dysphoria is vile and evil and smacks of satanic influence in this world that at this point in history belongs to him.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    The dysphoria may be part of a small fraction of those who think they can change their gender. But for the majority of those who think so, it is indeed a desire to go against the natural order of gender for the sake of a perverted idea of sexual "freedom".
    Not so. Dysphoria is what drives the diagnosis that engenders support for the change in the medical community. We can debate whether or not that is real, or whether or not altering the outward appearance and custom is the best solution for dealing with the dysphoria itself, but from everything I've read and from anyone I've dealt with dealing with the issue, gender Dysphoria is the first diagnosis that leads to the follow on adjustments to their lives. They are not - in the majority - just people doing this 'for the sake of a perverted idea of sexual "freedom"'.

    For some Christian perspectives on this that are not just derivatives the Westboro Baptist Church viewpoint, see information from Preston Sprinkle https://www.prestonsprinkle.com/

    https://www.amazon.com/Embodied-Tran.../dp/0830781226

    and Mark Yarhouse (Wheaton) https://www.wheaton.edu/academics/fa...mark-yarhouse/

    https://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Gend...87434342&psc=1

    Leave a comment:


  • mossrose
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    I was actually going to object to that last part but then I thought about it and yeah you can legitimately describe them as sick minds. Not in the sense of being perverted/evil but in the sense that they are truly sick in the literal sense: disordered, have something genuinely wrong with their mind much like people who are anorexic or otherwise have other body dysphoria.
    The dysphoria may be part of a small fraction of those who think they can change their gender. But for the majority of those who think so, it is indeed a desire to go against the natural order of gender for the sake of a perverted idea of sexual "freedom".

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    Yeah. But women who identify as "men" can. That's the whole point of the use of "birthing people" instead of women or mothers. Because the sick minds of those who claim to be able to change their sexual identities say so.
    I was actually going to object to that last part but then I thought about it and yeah you can legitimately describe them as sick minds. Not in the sense of being perverted/evil but in the sense that they are truly sick in the literal sense: disordered, have something genuinely wrong with their mind much like people who are anorexic or otherwise have other body dysphoria.

    Leave a comment:

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