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Fascism and Critical Race Theory

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  • Fascism and Critical Race Theory

    Facism and Critical Race Theory are two labels that get thrown around alot. The left asserted Trump was fascist, his administration was fascist, and his supporters were fascist. The right assails the use of CRT in schools, pushed in peoples faces, etc. Both sides are told that their label is BS, and that they don't know what they are talking about.

    There's one problem with that "Your label is wrong" dismissal.

    Just because the label is inaccurate, it does not mean the underlying issue they are trying to label isn't there. It just means that the label they are using isn't right. The problems underneath that people are labeling still exist, and dismissing them because they aren't labeled correctly don't solve anything. They just ignore the problem, which then can get worse.

  • #2
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
    .

    There's one problem with that "Your label is wrong" dismissal.

    Just because the label is inaccurate, it does not mean the underlying issue they are trying to label isn't there. It just means that the label they are using isn't right.
    Are you suggesting that both sides need to provide a precise definition of their respective term ["label"] and what they understand by it?
    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
      Facism and Critical Race Theory are two labels that get thrown around alot. The left asserted Trump was fascist, his administration was fascist, and his supporters were fascist. The right assails the use of CRT in schools, pushed in peoples faces, etc. Both sides are told that their label is BS, and that they don't know what they are talking about.

      There's one problem with that "Your label is wrong" dismissal.

      Just because the label is inaccurate, it does not mean the underlying issue they are trying to label isn't there. It just means that the label they are using isn't right. The problems underneath that people are labeling still exist, and dismissing them because they aren't labeled correctly don't solve anything. They just ignore the problem, which then can get worse.
      Critical Race Theory isn't something that opponents have labelled something. It is what the proponents also call it

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        Are you suggesting that both sides need to provide a precise definition of their respective term ["label"] and what they understand by it?
        Quite the opposite. I'm saying both sides need to stop arguing over the label, and listen to the actual complaints. Arguing over whether the label applied is correct is pedantic and ignores the larger point being made...

        It's like arguing about whether the "wall" or "bulkhead" broke in a ship, when the bigger problem is that it's broken and the ship is taking on water.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Critical Race Theory isn't something that opponents have labelled something. It is what the proponents also call it
          Your missing the point though. Arguing over the label's accuracy is irrelevant. Starlight comes in and tries to make the case that "nobody really uses it" it's just a label slapped on to rile up conservatives, etc. But at the end of the day that doesn't change whether or not the the actions being described are actually happening.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

            Your missing the point though. Arguing over the label's accuracy is irrelevant. Starlight comes in and tries to make the case that "nobody really uses it" it's just a label slapped on to rile up conservatives, etc. But at the end of the day that doesn't change whether or not the the actions being described are actually happening.
            It's a valid point. The fact is that the left is teaching racism in schools:trying to blame everything on white people, calling them "oppressors" and teaching "white" is a disease. No matter what you call it, it is wrong.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              It's a valid point. The fact is that the left is teaching racism in schools:trying to blame everything on white people, calling them "oppressors" and teaching "white" is a disease. No matter what you call it, it is wrong.
              I found it interesting that the first to reply came in and happily thought I was arguing FOR the sort of pedantic clarification they try to shove in, instead of directly against it. (Though, this thread wasn't directed at them)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                Quite the opposite. I'm saying both sides need to stop arguing over the label, and listen to the actual complaints. Arguing over whether the label applied is correct is pedantic and ignores the larger point being made...

                It's like arguing about whether the "wall" or "bulkhead" broke in a ship, when the bigger problem is that it's broken and the ship is taking on water.
                Yet you wrote "It just means that the label they are using isn't right." How can that be known if it is not defined?

                I take the point you are making but I just consider you have expressed it rather clumsily.
                "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just an aside, nobody seems to know what "fascist" means. By definition, it has such a narrow set of attributes that the label can't be placed on anyone in recent decades.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    Just an aside, nobody seems to know what "fascist" means. By definition, it has such a narrow set of attributes that the label can't be placed on anyone in recent decades.
                    Much like how the word "racist" has lost much of its meaning because it is typically used by those on the left to describe anyone who disagrees with them about virtually anything, the definition for "fascist" and "Nazi" has become very nebulous.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      Yet you wrote "It just means that the label they are using isn't right." How can that be known if it is not defined?

                      I take the point you are making but I just consider you have expressed it rather clumsily.
                      everyone else understood what he said and meant.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                        everyone else understood what he said and meant.
                        Good for them - offer them all a cookie!
                        "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          Good for them - offer them all a cookie!
                          so maybe the problem is with you, not the way he worded it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            Yet you wrote "It just means that the label they are using isn't right." How can that be known if it is not defined?

                            I take the point you are making but I just consider you have expressed it rather clumsily.
                            Actually, context matters, you have tried to snip out a single statement, without realizing the rest of the paragraph informs the meaning:

                            "Just because the label is inaccurate, it does not mean the underlying issue they are trying to label isn't there. It just means that the label they are using isn't right." You can argue about my punctuation, but you skipped the entire informing sentence in order to justify your mistaken impression.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                              Actually, context matters, you have tried to snip out a single statement, without realizing the rest of the paragraph informs the meaning:

                              "Just because the label is inaccurate, it does not mean the underlying issue they are trying to label isn't there. It just means that the label they are using isn't right."
                              How do you know that it [the label] is not right?

                              Or are you just referring to these phrases being used as pejoratives by some towards the opposition?

                              "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                              Comment

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