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  • Originally posted by seer View Post
    Lubbock, TX Declared It Was ‘Sanctuary For The Unborn.’ Planned Parenthood Challenged It. Court Rules For Lubbock.

    A federal court dismissed Planned Parenthood’s challenge to the city of Lubbock, Texas, which had passed an ordinance declaring the city a “Sanctuary for the Unborn,” and stated, “Abortion at all times and all stages of pregnancy is declared to be an act of murder.” The ordinance made it illegal to procure or perform an abortion or to aid or abet an abortion within the city limits.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/lubbo...es-for-lubbock
    From the article:

    "The Lubbock ordinance also creates a private-enforcement provision. That allows any citizen of Texas to sue anyone that procures, performs, or aids and abets an abortion, other than the unborn child’s mother,

    [My emphasis]

    Am I to understand that permits the mother to attempt to abort herself?

    If so how will the ruling deal with the purchase of abortifacients from the net [and probably from other countries]?

    How will it affect ER staff dealing with a woman brought in haemorrhaging and perhaps with her uterus and/or intestines partly outside her body because she has attempted to abort herself? Do the staff who try to save her risk being sued for "abetting" an abortion?

    I can envisage some test cases being brought.

    Not to mention the tragedy of newborns being left to die in dumpsters or on rubbish tips.
    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      From the article:

      "The Lubbock ordinance also creates a private-enforcement provision. That allows any citizen of Texas to sue anyone that procures, performs, or aids and abets an abortion, other than the unborn child’s mother,

      [My emphasis]

      Am I to understand that permits the mother to attempt to abort herself?
      Well, she can attempt to abort herself, that would be called attempted suicide. Not sure anyone would even think of suing over it, but we sue over stupid stuff all the time.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

        Well, she can attempt to abort herself, that would be called attempted suicide.
        Not necessarily it depends upon the length of gestation. She could end up suffering massive blood loss and potentially rendering herself infertile but she may well survive.

        What provisions are in place to prevent a woman purchasing abortifacients on the net and very probably from another country?
        "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          How interesting that you make that comment to me when you completely ignored my comments to you in another thread. Remember this? https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...10#post1269244

          You went strangely silent after I made my posts #142 and #143.

          Incidentally, I have addressed one of your posts. I wait to read your response.

          However, with regard to your little sermon/rant in this thread if you want an online "slanging match" you've chosen the wrong person.
          Lady you do NOT want to open that can of worms. This comes from a hypocrite who ignores a series of questions by responding "Snipped for irrelevancy" because you didn't want to have to answer any of them. And from the same person who keeps demanding an answer to the same question to the point that other posters felt it necessary to have to point you to exactly where I answered it (listing both the post and where in the post it was).

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Lady you do NOT want to open that can of worms. This comes from a hypocrite who ignores a series of questions by responding "Snipped for irrelevancy" because you didn't want to have to answer any of them. And from the same person who keeps demanding an answer to the same question to the point that other posters felt it necessary to have to point you to exactly where I answered it (listing both the post and where in the post it was).
            Are you annoyed because you cannot find Stavrakopoulou's work freely available online?

            Let us be quite clear about all this. You never answered my questions for detailed citations from O'Collins in support of what you contended he wrote because we both know you had no access to his work[s]. You had merely found a reference to him online and attempted to pass the remark off as your own. Likewise your comments about Brandon, Carter, Feldman, and Twelftree. You could not even tell me which work of Twelftree's you were referencing because you had no idea. As with O'Collins you had simply found a reference on one of your fishing trips.

            I request from you what you often cannot provide, namely detailed citations from the authors [or the works you reference]. The only detailed citations you ever offer are those that are freely available online. Any further pages/chapters/sections in those various works remain proverbially "closed" to you because you do not possess copies of the texts.

            As I also noted on the other thread, the only work you have provided detailed citations from is the one you possess, i.e. Loke.

            So kindly do not criticise me for not responding to your posts.


            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
              Not necessarily it depends upon the length of gestation. She could end up suffering massive blood loss and potentially rendering herself infertile but she may well survive.

              What provisions are in place to prevent a woman purchasing abortifacients on the net and very probably from another country?
              Well, I would wager a woman trying to abort herself is around the 64th Trimester (at least). Gestation is likely not an issue.
              Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 06-11-2021, 07:00 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                Well, I would wager a woman trying to abort herself is around the 64th Trimester. Gestation is likely not an issue.
                That is actually quite witty for you!
                "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  That is actually quite witty for you!
                  Though, why you think a law allows a woman to abort herself is beyond me.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    From the article:

                    "The Lubbock ordinance also creates a private-enforcement provision. That allows any citizen of Texas to sue anyone that procures, performs, or aids and abets an abortion, other than the unborn child’s mother,

                    [My emphasis]

                    Am I to understand that permits the mother to attempt to abort herself?

                    If so how will the ruling deal with the purchase of abortifacients from the net [and probably from other countries]?

                    How will it affect ER staff dealing with a woman brought in haemorrhaging and perhaps with her uterus and/or intestines partly outside her body because she has attempted to abort herself? Do the staff who try to save her risk being sued for "abetting" an abortion?

                    I can envisage some test cases being brought.

                    Not to mention the tragedy of newborns being left to die in dumpsters or on rubbish tips.
                    No it means that any citizen (who has a standing) can civilly sue everyone involved in an abortion except the mother. So the doctors, nurses, abortion clinic. The mother herself is exempt from a lawsuit.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      Not necessarily it depends upon the length of gestation. She could end up suffering massive blood loss and potentially rendering herself infertile but she may well survive.

                      What provisions are in place to prevent a woman purchasing abortifacients on the net and very probably from another country?
                      wouldn't it just be easier for her to go to another city to have the abortion?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                        Though, why you think a law allows a woman to abort herself is beyond me.
                        Leaving word-play including malapropisms and clause confusion aside for the present [although it is a hilarious pastime and I can think of several examples that remain firm favourites of mine] my remark was premised on what the article stated:

                        "The Lubbock ordinance also creates a private-enforcement provision. That allows any citizen of Texas to sue anyone that procures, performs, or aids and abets an abortion, other than the unborn child’s mother,”

                        So I repeat my questions [albeit in slightly modified language].

                        If a pregnant woman attempts to perform an abortion upon her own person and is taken into hospital experiencing haemorrhaging and perhaps with her uterus and/or intestines partly outside her body; do the staff who try to save her risk being sued for their part in abetting an abortion?

                        How will the ruling deal with a woman who has purchased abortifacients from the net [and possibly from another country]?
                        "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          wouldn't it just be easier for her to go to another city to have the abortion?
                          The lack of local abortion clinics and the cost of the operation contribute to the time it takes for women [particularly those on low incomes] to obtain the funds to permit them [A] pay for the operation but also [B] fund their travel costs to their nearest clinic [which might be hundreds of kilometres away].

                          There is also the issue of time taken away from their place of work if they are employed.

                          "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            Leaving word-play including malapropisms and clause confusion aside for the present [although it is a hilarious pastime and I can think of several examples that remain firm favourites of mine] my remark was premised on what the article stated:

                            "The Lubbock ordinance also creates a private-enforcement provision. That allows any citizen of Texas to sue anyone that procures, performs, or aids and abets an abortion, other than the unborn child’s mother,”

                            So I repeat my questions [albeit in slightly modified language].

                            If a pregnant woman attempts to perform an abortion upon her own person and is taken into hospital experiencing haemorrhaging and perhaps with her uterus and/or intestines partly outside her body; do the staff who try to save her risk being sued for their part in abetting an abortion?

                            How will the ruling deal with a woman who has purchased abortifacients from the net [and possibly from another country]?
                            You said
                            Am I to understand that permits the mother to attempt to abort herself?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                              You said
                              Am I to understand that permits the mother to attempt to abort herself?
                              Yes and I have acknowledged that, as well as acknowledging your [unusually] witty remark pertaining to what I wrote.

                              "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                                No it means that any citizen (who has a standing) can civilly sue everyone involved in an abortion except the mother. So the doctors, nurses, abortion clinic. The mother herself is exempt from a lawsuit.
                                What about medical staff at a hospital if the mother is brought in dangerously ill as a result of attempting to abort the embryo/foetus herself?

                                They, by assisting the mother, could [and I use the word advisedly] be accused of abetting her in obtaining her abortion.

                                And how does any citizen prosecute a website in another country that provides abortifacients?

                                Can the citizen sue the post-worker or courier for delivering the package to the pregnant woman who ordered it? It could be argued [and again I use the word advisedly] that the post-worker or courier [or the courier company] were deemed to be abetting an abortion.
                                Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 06-11-2021, 08:04 AM.
                                "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                                Comment

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