The Blue State Gerrymander Walk-Back

[oxmixmudd]

I'm not philosophically opposed to gerrymandering.

But I would like to point out that someone could be philosophically opposed to gerrymandering, and still give blue states a pass (without being hypocritical) based on the idea that if blue states refused to do it, that would be akin to unilateral disarmament. The elimination of gerrymandering would have to be imposed on the states by the federal government.

And I think it should be. It's completely contrary to the basic principles of a democratic republic like we have. Gerrymandering is giving control to the powerful - whoever the powerful are - and taking it away from the people.

[oxmixmudd]

So if you say people shouldn't punch other people, and you punch someone back, you are a hypocrite.

Within the context of 'the same thing'. If a person says that people shouldn't punch people as a response to the context of a verbal spat where two people got into a fist fight and then that same person punches a person to stop them from stealing another person's wallet, they are not being hypocritical. Though in the political arena it is common to take both events out of context and then levy the accusation maliciously.

[CivilDiscourse]

Within the context of 'the same thing'. If a person says that people shouldn't punch people as a response to the context of a verbal spat where two people got into a fist fight and then that same person punches a person to stop them from stealing another person's wallet, they are not being hypocritical. Though in the political arena it is common to take both events out of context and then levy the accusation maliciously.

If you want to equate it to gerrymandering let's put it this way.

You walk around punching people in verbal spats. Then a bunch of the guys you did that to, put work in at the gym. Now when hthey get back and starts punching you during verbal spats. Afterwards you start complaining about punching people during verbal spats. Now, you've started planning to do some big punching of people in verbal spats, and point at the guys who went to the gym as an excuse, but never stopped punching others during other verbal spats when you felt you could get away with it.

[Stoic]

If you want to equate it to gerrymandering let's put it this way.

You walk around punching people in verbal spats. Then a bunch of the guys you did that to, put work in at the gym. Now when hthey get back and starts punching you during verbal spats. Afterwards you start complaining about punching people during verbal spats. Now, you've started planning to do some big punching of people in verbal spats, and point at the guys who went to the gym as an excuse, but never stopped punching others during other verbal spats when you felt you could get away with it.

This also assumes that Democrats are a single entity, such that what one Democrat has done, all have done. The ones who originally took part in gerrymandering are the same as the ones who complained about it when Republicans did it, and are the same as the ones who want to do it because Republicans are doing it and the Supreme Court refuses to stop it.

[CivilDiscourse]

This also assumes that Democrats are a single entity, such that what one Democrat has done, all have done. The ones who originally took part in gerrymandering are the same as the ones who complained about it when Republicans did it, and are the same as the ones who want to do it because Republicans are doing it and the Supreme Court refuses to stop it.

Source: https://www.thedailybeast.com/democrats-hate-gerrymanderingexcept-when-they-get-to-do-it

Democrats Hate Gerrymandering—Except When They Get to Do It

With Republicans clinging to the House of Representatives facing a blue midterm wave, and the 2020 census right around the corner, gerrymandering has suddenly become a hot topic. Democrats are particularly worried that Republican-drawn districts will be too high a wall to breach, no matter how hard they campaign, or how big the wave.

“In 2006, a roughly five-and-a-half-point lead in the national popular vote was enough for Democrats to pick up 31 seats and win back the House majority they had lost to Newt Gingrich,” write Michael Li and Laura Royden of the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law. “But our research shows that a similar margin of victory in 2018 would most likely net Democrats only 13 seats, leaving the Republicans firmly in charge.”

Imagine a scenario where 2016 (with Hillary Clinton winning the popular vote, but losing the election) is immediately followed by a midterm election where Democrats feel just as cheated. This kind of repeated failure would breed more than just frustration on the left—it would lead to the kind of paranoia that defined the right for the Obama years.

Of course, even if 2020 is an especially good year for Democrats, giving them control of the House of Representatives and the state legislatures that draw the congressional boundaries, gerrymandering won’t end—it will just shift to benefit them. If you don’t believe me—if you think this is a sin exclusive to Republicans—consider the places I have lived.

I’m from western Maryland, the 6th Congressional district that was for many years represented by conservative Republican Roscoe Bartlett (the Supreme Court is currently looking into this). This is culturally more akin to West Virginia or central Pennsylvania than it is to the Maryland of the Baltimore-Washington nexus (I went to college in West Virginia, and my mom now lives in Pennsylvania). This point is buttressed by the fact that Bartlett is now a survivalist living in the Mountain State, and that his heir apparent, former Maryland State Senator Alex Mooney, is now West Virginia Congressman Mooney.

Why did Bartlett go off the grid and why did Mooney have to move across the James Rumsey bridge? Because Democrats decided to give themselves another Congressional seat. As Mother Jones describes it, “Democrats added a strange-looking appendage to the district, reaching all the way down into the affluent Washington DC, suburbs to scoop up Democratic voters. More than 360,000 people were moved out of the district, and nearly as many were moved in. It went from solidly Republican to reliably Democratic; the Cook Political Report identified it as the biggest district swing in the country.”

Today, I live in Alexandria, Virginia, a city that Democrats dominate. In May of 2009, however, one Republican managed to get elected to the six-member City Council. This was apparently too much for Democrats to stomach. One month after his election, the City Council voted to move municipal elections from May to November—an attempt to squash the chances that Republicans could compensate for their numerical disadvantages by organizing to win low-turnout elections. It worked.

But this isn’t peculiar to states where I have resided. The likely Democratic gubernatorial nominee in New Mexico, Rep. Michelle Lujan Grisham, is telling supporters that one selling point for her leaving Congress to run for governor is that “you would be in charge of redistricting.” Meanwhile, the state’s Democratic secretary of state, Secretary of State Maggie Toulouse Oliver, was working to change other rules—an attempt to prevent a Republican Congressman running for governor from transferring federal money to his gubernatorial account. Having failed at that, Oliver is now working to bring back straight party voting, which would benefit Democrats in New Mexico.

© Copyright Original Source

[CivilDiscourse]

If you want to equate it to gerrymandering let's put it this way.

You walk around punching people in verbal spats. Then a bunch of the guys you did that to, put work in at the gym. Now when hthey get back and starts punching you during verbal spats. Afterwards you start complaining about punching people during verbal spats. Now, you've started planning to do some big punching of people in verbal spats, and point at the guys who went to the gym as an excuse, but never stopped punching others during other verbal spats when you felt you could get away with it.

oxmixmudd Did you care to respond?

[Stoic]

If that was an attempt to claim that all Democrats have taken part in gerrymandering, the evidence falls a little short.

[CivilDiscourse]

If that was an attempt to claim that all Democrats have taken part in gerrymandering, the evidence falls a little short.

It's not a claim that all democrats have, but that the democratic part has been gerrymandering for a long time, and haven't stopped, even as they complain about the republicans doing it.

[rogue06]

Source: https://www.thedailybeast.com/democrats-hate-gerrymanderingexcept-when-they-get-to-do-it

Democrats Hate Gerrymandering—Except When They Get to Do It

With Republicans clinging to the House of Representatives facing a blue midterm wave, and the 2020 census right around the corner, gerrymandering has suddenly become a hot topic. Democrats are particularly worried that Republican-drawn districts will be too high a wall to breach, no matter how hard they campaign, or how big the wave.

“In 2006, a roughly five-and-a-half-point lead in the national popular vote was enough for Democrats to pick up 31 seats and win back the House majority they had lost to Newt Gingrich,” write Michael Li and Laura Royden of the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law. “But our research shows that a similar margin of victory in 2018 would most likely net Democrats only 13 seats, leaving the Republicans firmly in charge.”

Imagine a scenario where 2016 (with Hillary Clinton winning the popular vote, but losing the election) is immediately followed by a midterm election where Democrats feel just as cheated. This kind of repeated failure would breed more than just frustration on the left—it would lead to the kind of paranoia that defined the right for the Obama years.

Of course, even if 2020 is an especially good year for Democrats, giving them control of the House of Representatives and the state legislatures that draw the congressional boundaries, gerrymandering won’t end—it will just shift to benefit them. If you don’t believe me—if you think this is a sin exclusive to Republicans—consider the places I have lived.

I’m from western Maryland, the 6th Congressional district that was for many years represented by conservative Republican Roscoe Bartlett (the Supreme Court is currently looking into this). This is culturally more akin to West Virginia or central Pennsylvania than it is to the Maryland of the Baltimore-Washington nexus (I went to college in West Virginia, and my mom now lives in Pennsylvania). This point is buttressed by the fact that Bartlett is now a survivalist living in the Mountain State, and that his heir apparent, former Maryland State Senator Alex Mooney, is now West Virginia Congressman Mooney.

Why did Bartlett go off the grid and why did Mooney have to move across the James Rumsey bridge? Because Democrats decided to give themselves another Congressional seat. As Mother Jones describes it, “Democrats added a strange-looking appendage to the district, reaching all the way down into the affluent Washington DC, suburbs to scoop up Democratic voters. More than 360,000 people were moved out of the district, and nearly as many were moved in. It went from solidly Republican to reliably Democratic; the Cook Political Report identified it as the biggest district swing in the country.”

Today, I live in Alexandria, Virginia, a city that Democrats dominate. In May of 2009, however, one Republican managed to get elected to the six-member City Council. This was apparently too much for Democrats to stomach. One month after his election, the City Council voted to move municipal elections from May to November—an attempt to squash the chances that Republicans could compensate for their numerical disadvantages by organizing to win low-turnout elections. It worked.

But this isn’t peculiar to states where I have resided. The likely Democratic gubernatorial nominee in New Mexico, Rep. Michelle Lujan Grisham, is telling supporters that one selling point for her leaving Congress to run for governor is that “you would be in charge of redistricting.” Meanwhile, the state’s Democratic secretary of state, Secretary of State Maggie Toulouse Oliver, was working to change other rules—an attempt to prevent a Republican Congressman running for governor from transferring federal money to his gubernatorial account. Having failed at that, Oliver is now working to bring back straight party voting, which would benefit Democrats in New Mexico.

© Copyright Original Source

Maryland is an example of such over-the-top gerrymandering even some on the left express discomfort with it. How Democrats Gerrymandered Their Way to Victory in Maryland: New documents show how when given the opportunity, the Democratic Party was as ruthless as their GOP counterparts in trying to redistrict their rivals out of existence and Maryland’s Extreme Gerrymander: The drawing of the Sixth Congressional District’s lines merits scrutiny for instance.