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Maybe We Should Just do Epidemiology

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  • Maybe We Should Just do Epidemiology

    Scott Atlas: Lockdowns Not Only a ‘Heinous Abuse’ of Power, They Also Failed to Protect the Elderly




    Lockdowns have ultimately failed, Atlas said, as they failed to protect the elderly and high-risk individuals in the early months of the pandemic last year. Meanwhile, countless others have suffered due to diversions of medical resources.

    “We saw even in March, April, May [2020], the lockdown policies were number one, failing to protect the high risk people—people were dying, they were elderly. The nursing home deaths made up 40 to 50 percent of all deaths,” Atlas explained. “And it was through many of our states; at one point in Minnesota, 80 percent of the deaths were [in] nursing homes.”

    Americans were also skipping chemotherapy treatments, while people who had suffered acute strokes and heart attacks were too afraid to call an ambulance as they didn’t want to be in a medical setting, and the majority of live organ transplants weren’t conducted during the onset of the pandemic, Atlas said.

    Meanwhile, child abuse and domestic abuse skyrocketed, opioid deaths and suicides surged, and there has been a dramatic rise in young people suffering from depression and anxiety, he added.

    “I think that it is still somehow held by many people that OK, the lockdowns are an economic harm, but we’re saving lives. No, you’re destroying families, you’re destroying lives, and you’re literally killing people with the lockdowns,” Atlas said.

    Citing June 2020 data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlas said that one in four young adults contemplated suicide.

    “The lockdowns failed, they still failed to protect the people who are high risk, and the lockdowns destroyed and killed,” Atlas said. “Many other people destroyed families, sacrificed our children out of fear for adults—even though the children do not have significant risk. And we didn’t care as a country. We kept them out of school.”

    He added: “It’s a disgrace. It’s a heinous abuse of the power of public health experts to do what was done.”





    Credit for owning the mistake - genuinely.


    But no duh! And no, we didn't all agree with the lockdowns initially. Many of us opposed them from the start. There was nothing in public health's 80 years of disease control history that would make a rational person assume that backwards quarantine would work - heck, we were just plain lucky it didn't throw gas on the fire by bottlenecking everyone into the same few stores. That Walmart didn't become the epicenter for an even more massive outbreak was a huge clue that we didn't really understand how C19 was spreading.

    Well, massive civil rights abuses and irrational public policy didn't work with lockdowns - so let's try the same thing with rush job vaccines. What could go wrong?

    I mean, we can't just use informed consent and prioritizing the vulnerable - what would people say if they knew that there are rational ways to use public health policy to actually help the public without throwing out the Constitution?


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  • #2
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    Scott Atlas: Lockdowns Not Only a ‘Heinous Abuse’ of Power, They Also Failed to Protect the Elderly




    Lockdowns have ultimately failed, Atlas said, as they failed to protect the elderly and high-risk individuals in the early months of the pandemic last year. Meanwhile, countless others have suffered due to diversions of medical resources.

    “We saw even in March, April, May [2020], the lockdown policies were number one, failing to protect the high risk people—people were dying, they were elderly. The nursing home deaths made up 40 to 50 percent of all deaths,” Atlas explained. “And it was through many of our states; at one point in Minnesota, 80 percent of the deaths were [in] nursing homes.”

    Americans were also skipping chemotherapy treatments, while people who had suffered acute strokes and heart attacks were too afraid to call an ambulance as they didn’t want to be in a medical setting, and the majority of live organ transplants weren’t conducted during the onset of the pandemic, Atlas said.

    Meanwhile, child abuse and domestic abuse skyrocketed, opioid deaths and suicides surged, and there has been a dramatic rise in young people suffering from depression and anxiety, he added.

    “I think that it is still somehow held by many people that OK, the lockdowns are an economic harm, but we’re saving lives. No, you’re destroying families, you’re destroying lives, and you’re literally killing people with the lockdowns,” Atlas said.

    Citing June 2020 data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlas said that one in four young adults contemplated suicide.

    “The lockdowns failed, they still failed to protect the people who are high risk, and the lockdowns destroyed and killed,” Atlas said. “Many other people destroyed families, sacrificed our children out of fear for adults—even though the children do not have significant risk. And we didn’t care as a country. We kept them out of school.”

    He added: “It’s a disgrace. It’s a heinous abuse of the power of public health experts to do what was done.”





    Credit for owning the mistake - genuinely.


    But no duh! And no, we didn't all agree with the lockdowns initially. Many of us opposed them from the start. There was nothing in public health's 80 years of disease control history that would make a rational person assume that backwards quarantine would work - heck, we were just plain lucky it didn't throw gas on the fire by bottlenecking everyone into the same few stores. That Walmart didn't become the epicenter for an even more massive outbreak was a huge clue that we didn't really understand how C19 was spreading.

    Well, massive civil rights abuses and irrational public policy didn't work with lockdowns - so let's try the same thing with rush job vaccines. What could go wrong?

    I mean, we can't just use informed consent and prioritizing the vulnerable - what would people say if they knew that there are rational ways to use public health policy to actually help the public without throwing out the Constitution?


    AFAICT this was the first pandemic where we quarantined the healthy. I wonder if, in the future, anyone will be using that model to combat a pandemic.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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    • #3
      The entire response to the China flu was classic government logic:

      We must do something.
      X is something.
      Therefore, we must do X.

      Never mind that X didn't make a lick of sense.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        The entire response to the China flu was classic government logic:

        We must do something.
        X is something.
        Therefore, we must do X.

        Never mind that X didn't make a lick of sense.
        Yeah. i've seen that pattern many times before in various shades.

        Declare <A> is a crisis.
        Say that <X> will solve the crisis that was declared.
        Ask anyone who objects to <X> if they have a solution to the declared crisis.
        Insist we do <X>.

        (Note, the above doesn't actually allow for discussion of whether or not <A> is a crisis, that is seen as non-negotiable.

        Comment


        • #5
          I look forward to seeing a rational analysis of the overall effect of lockdowns from an unbiased source.

          No guarantees, but it may happen one day.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Stoic View Post
            I look forward to seeing a rational analysis of the overall effect of lockdowns from an unbiased source.

            No guarantees, but it may happen one day.
            Especially considering they sold it on the basis of being for just two weeks in order to flatten the curve so that hospitals wouldn't be all overwhelmed all at once.

            14 plus months later some folks are still in quarantine waiting.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Stoic View Post
              I look forward to seeing a rational analysis of the overall effect of lockdowns from an unbiased source a source that tells me what I want to hear.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Scott Atlas would have happily allowed millions of Americans to die of covid-19. He's the last person I would listen to.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                  Scott Atlas would have happily allowed millions of Americans to die of covid-19. He's the last person I would listen to.
                  Care to support your slander with evidence?

                  I mean, *I* would sacrifice some lives for liberty and respect for the Constitution, but can you document that Dr. Atlas would?
                  Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                  Beige Federalist.

                  Nationalist Christian.

                  "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                  Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                  Proud member of the this space left blank community.

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                  Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

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                  Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm pleased to report that PA's two anti-autocrat amendment questions on the Tuesday ballot were approved. Governor Fenris and future governors, whether D or R, will have more constraints on their emergency powers.
                    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                    Beige Federalist.

                    Nationalist Christian.

                    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                    Justice for Matthew Perna!

                    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      On a happier note, I'm no longer the lone person in a store not wearing a mask. Seems that more and more people in my left-leaning town are starting to let go of their fear and live normal lives.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                        Care to support your slander with evidence?

                        I mean, *I* would sacrifice some lives for liberty and respect for the Constitution, but can you document that Dr. Atlas would?
                        Okay, "happily" might have been a bit over the top. But if we had reacted to the pandemic the way he would have preferred, many more Americans would have died.

                        https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...t-idea-of-2020

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                          Okay, "happily" might have been a bit over the top. But if we had reacted to the pandemic the way he would have preferred, many more Americans would have died.

                          https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...t-idea-of-2020
                          https://fee.org/articles/3-studies-t...wing-covid-19/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Moderated By: rogue06


                            Okay folks let's not have dueling weblinks

                            ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
                            Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.


                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              Well, massive civil rights abuses and irrational public policy didn't work with lockdowns - so let's try the same thing with rush job vaccines. What could go wrong?
                              Um, so if we didn't do lockdowns or vaccines, I presume you'd agree that pretty much everyone would then eventually get covid?

                              A quick look at the mortality stats tells me that ~1%-2% of people who get covid, die from it. So in a US population of ~330m people, you'd have 3.3m-6.6m deaths. Is that your preferred scenario that you're saying would have obviously been better in hindsight?
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