Is Israel practising a form of apartheid?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Prejudice can take many forms. Whatever excuse one comes up with to divide humanity into those that are deserving/superior and those that are not (inferior) leads to toxicity. Sometimes, ideas that are benign can turn toxic after a trauma---From a conversation with a Jewish person, I understand that the original intent of the "chosen people" concept was one of responsibility to become exemplars of a moral and ethical "way of life". The circumstances of the era of the World Wars created traumas that were then unfortunately replicated by the victims who turned into perpetrators.
It is a point to keep in mind---that wars create monsters. Waging war does not keep anyone safe---it only creates larger and larger vectors of harm.

Today some Jews are waking up to the toxicity that Jewish Zionism has become. It would be better for Judaism to restore its ethico-moral philosophy so that it can heal itself.

That is true and for a people who had suffered centuries of persecution and cruelty and which reached its conclusion at places like Treblinka and Auschwitz it is even more tragic. However, we still see the tragedy of hate played out across the world.

The whole mindset is superbly crystallised by the English poet W H Auden within four lines of his poem 1st September 1939 [the date Germany invaded Poland]. The work was published in October of that year.

I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Today some Jews are waking up to the toxicity that Jewish Zionism has become---that Israel is a settler-colonial apartheid state.....

here are some Jewish opinions......

or...

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/writin...-antisemitism/

As we know there are many diaspora Jews as well as Israelis who oppose the Israeli government's policies. The American academic Norman Finkelstein is probably one of the most outspoken opponents of the use by many Jewish and/or Israeli bodies of the Shoah as justification for Israeli injustices. And we know many Israelis and diaspora Jews work with Palestinians across many sectors including politics, education, and the Arts and so there is hope. However, as your video link states it is the rise of the political Right [as elsewhere] that is also a serious problem.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Except this is the one that cause the recent dust up.

There have been numerous other protests as well as indiscriminate killings of both Palestinians and others. Remember Rachel Corrie and Thomas Hurndall?

There is also saying about the last straw.

[Gondwanaland]

It honestly should not be much of a surprise to anyone that Israel is practicing Apartheid policies.

They were close allies with Apartheid South Africa, after all, giving them all sorts of assistance (including military).

In fact, at one point, they offered to sell the Apartheid regime nuclear weapons (the offer was turned down due to cost) and nuclear-capable missiles. It's also suspected that they helped the Apartheid regime then develop their own nuclear weapons. In return, South Africa provided Israel much of the yellowcake Uranium they needed to develop their own arsenal (which Israel to this day does not admit to having, and has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.....). Israel put great pressure on the post-apartheid government not to declassify the documents that described the sale offer.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uclear-weapons

So yeah, no surprise they are using the policies and practices of their former friends in apartheid South Africa.

[RumTumTugger]

They only tried to destroy them in three wars....

Which includes the 6 day war where all the Arab nations surrounding Israel told the Arabs who were living in Israel to get out and so that they could destroy the jewish people and give the land to those said Israeli Arabs. unfortunately after the 6 day ware there was no land to give the Arabs who left Israel because Israel won. d Israel rightly not trusting the former Israeli Arabs would not let them back in and the arab nations would not take them in they were given part of the gaza strip and hense the area of Palistine was born after the 6 day war The Arab nations started.

[RumTumTugger]

Yes, just like the school bully was 'just defending themselves' when the person they've bullied for years fights back.

Before you start talking to us about Israel being the bully you need to g do some study about the 6 day war and then get back to us. And Before you try and use Palestinian propaganda please read look sources closes to the time to find out who the true aggressor was. I"ll give you a clue in the Karate Kid near the end it was not Mr. Miagi(sp)who was the aggressor in the fight that with the other teacher.

[Gondwanaland]

Before you start talking to us about Israel being the bully you need to g do some study about the 6 day war and then get back to us. And Before you try and use Palestinian propaganda please read look sources closes to the time to find out who the true aggressor was. I"ll give you a clue in the Karate Kid near the end it was not Mr. Miagi(sp)who was the aggressor in the fight that with the other teacher.

Last I checked the 6 day war was in 1967. Almost 54 years ago. We're talking about 2021 and the events going on now, in which Israel is guilty of Apartheid practices (and frankly ethnic cleansing as well). So before you start bleating to us in defense of Israel, maybe enter the 21st century at least. If you want to simp for Israel, that's fine, that's you're prerogative, but at least talk about the things we are discussing instead of 5+ decades in the past.

[siam]

If the logic is that going through a holocaust gives a group of people the right to "appropriate" land/state for themselves---then this logic also applies to Palestinians (Christians and Muslims). They too have the right to "their own" land---Palestine---after the "holocaust" they are going through at Jewish-Israeli hands.
So...one should scrap the toxic idiocy that is "Isreal"---and instead create a new state named --- Israel-Palestine. (Jewish Isrealis and Christian/Muslim Palestinians). They all live together with equal rights / responsibilities.

[siam]

Before you start talking to us about Israel being the bully you need to g do some study about the 6 day war and then get back to us. And Before you try and use Palestinian propaganda please read look sources closes to the time to find out who the true aggressor was. I"ll give you a clue in the Karate Kid near the end it was not Mr. Miagi(sp)who was the aggressor in the fight that with the other teacher.

This is info I have from the net---

After the 1956 Suez Crisis, Egypt agreed to the stationing of a United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) in the Sinai to ensure all parties would comply with the 1949 Armistice Agreements.^[8][9][10] Despite the overwhelming support for Resolution 1000 in the UN General Assembly, Israel refused to allow UNEF forces onto its territory.^[11] In the following years, there were numerous minor border clashes between Israel and its Arab neighbors, particularly Syria. In early November, 1966, Syria signed a mutual defense agreement with Egypt.^[12] On November 13, 1966, in response to PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) guerrilla activity,^[13][14] including a mine attack that left three dead,^[15] the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) attacked the village of as-Samu in the Jordanian-occupied West Bank.^[16] Jordanian units that engaged the Israelis were quickly beaten back.^[17] King Hussein of Jordan criticized Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser for failing to come to Jordan's aid, and "hiding behind UNEF skirts".^[18][19] Israel was censured for this invasion in United Nations Security Council Resolution 228, being reproached by the US, the UK, France and the USSR.^[20] On April 7, 1967 Israel invaded Syria.^[21] The USSR urged that the collective defense agreement with Egypt had been triggered.^[22] In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border.
......

In 1967, Israeli leaders repeatedly threatened to invade Syria and overthrow the Syrian government if Palestinian guerrilla actions across the border did not cease.^[106] In that context, the Soviet Union fed the Syrian government false information in the Spring of 1967 that Israel was planning to invade Syria.^[107]

On May 13, a Soviet intelligence report given by Soviet President Nikolai Podgorny to Egyptian Vice President Anwar Sadat likewise claimed falsely that Israeli troops were massing along the Syrian border.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin...he_Six-Day_War


Anyone trying to unravel the mess that is I/P is going to go Insane! .....its a massive car crash of mistakes upon mistakes piled up.

[Starlight]

But the real question is should the Jews have their own state?

Not necessarily, they could have just integrated with local populations. I'm part Jewish in ancestry, and I am quite happy living in my country.

Perhaps the US should split off a state specifically for Jews though if you're so convinced that Jews absolutely need their own state. You guys seem way more favorable to Jews than people in the Middle East are, so would seem sensible to have an officially Jewish area near you guys instead of smack in the middle of historical enemies of the Jews. NY's got the biggest Jewish population, so let's split NY state in two and make one of them officially a Jewish State.

[Starlight]

Michael Brooks' untimely death was very sad. He was one of my favorite political commentators and just beginning to make a real name and career for himself taking principled stances on geo-politics - something that is all too rare in the US media ecosystem. Not to mention his hilarious comedic reinterpretations/impressions of famous people (e.g. if Obama had actually been the devout/terrorist Muslim that some on the right pretended he really was: (Michael's Obama-voice) "The arc of history is long, but it bends toward sharia" ).

[seer]

Not necessarily, they could have just integrated with local populations. I'm part Jewish in ancestry, and I am quite happy living in my country.

Perhaps the US should split off a state specifically for Jews though if you're so convinced that Jews absolutely need their own state. You guys seem way more favorable to Jews than people in the Middle East are, so would seem sensible to have an officially Jewish area near you guys instead of smack in the middle of historical enemies of the Jews. NY's got the biggest Jewish population, so let's split NY state in two and make one of them officially a Jewish State.

After the Holocaust I think many Jews want a homeland where they are not beholden to another Government for their survival. I mean just look at the uptick of antisemitism in Europe in the last decade or so.

The Alarming Rise of Anti-Semitism in Europe

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/06/04/...emitism-europe

[rogue06]

Not necessarily, they could have just integrated with local populations.

They did just that in multiple places, none of which worked out too well for them in the long run.

[Mountain Man]

After the Holocaust I think many Jews want a homeland where they are not beholden to another Government for their survival. I mean just look at the uptick of antisemitism in Europe in the last decade or so.

Heck, in the last week! Anti-Israel demonstrations are on the rise across Europe and the US.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Which includes the 6 day war where all the Arab nations surrounding Israel told the Arabs who were living in Israel to get out and so that they could destroy the jewish people and give the land to those said Israeli Arabs. unfortunately after the 6 day ware there was no land to give the Arabs who left Israel because Israel won. d Israel rightly not trusting the former Israeli Arabs would not let them back in and the arab nations would not take them in they were given part of the gaza strip and hense the area of Palistine was born after the 6 day war The Arab nations started.

Not exactly. One major factor in the Six Day War was access to water.

In his book Six Days of War, [OUP, 2002] Michael Oren notes that the build up to the 1967 war concerned various issues including the Palestinian dimension that affected Israel and the Arabs, the violence from Syria and Soviet support for Syria. However, he also adds that "And then there was water. More than any other individual factor the war would revolve around water". Nor is Oren the only historian making the connection between the conflict and natural resources. Moshe Shemesh makes a more detailed case in Prelude to the Six Day War: The Arab-Israeli Struggle over Water Resources [Israel Studies, 9 (3) 1-45],

It is not disputed that the Arabs did not want Israel to expand as a nation but water and its potential for a future Israel played an important part in that conflict.