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Is Israel practising a form of apartheid?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    According to this article:

    https://www.dw.com/en/israel-gaza-vi...ned/a-57501475

    "Hamas said the deadly rocket strike was a response to the destruction of a 14-story building in Gaza after Israeli fighter jets dropped two bombs on it. Israel said the Al-Farouk tower housed the Hamas intelligence services."

    Hamas: Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin said in 1987, and the Hamas Charter affirmed in 1988, that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine, including modern-day Israel, from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

    Hamas is a terrorist organization that wants Israel to disappear from the face of the earth.
    This is from the WSJ in 2009 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847

    Surveying the wreckage of a neighbor's bungalow hit by a Palestinian rocket, retired Israeli official Avner Cohen traces the missile's trajectory back to an "enormous, stupid mistake" made 30 years ago.

    "Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel's destruction.

    Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with "Yassins," primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric.

    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      Well you should take some heed of the UN. After all the USA helped to establish it.
      Many years past when my high school class toured the UN building, we were led into the main council chamber where the tour guide cheerfully asked, "Does anybody know what happens in here?" My friend said under his breath, "Nothing of any importance." That, I think, remains the best and most concise evaluation of the UN you'll find anywhere.

      On the plus side, I recall the tour guide being exceptionally attractive.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        Many years past when my high school class toured the UN building, we were led into the main council chamber where the tour guide cheerfully asked, "Does anybody know what happens in here?" My friend said under his breath, "Nothing of any importance." That, I think, remains the best and most concise evaluation of the UN you'll find anywhere.

        On the plus side, I recall the tour guide being exceptionally attractive.
        An amusing anecdote and non sequitur.
        "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          An amusing anecdote and non sequitur.
          I'm glad you enjoyed it.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

            I'm glad you enjoyed it.
            I did, as an anecdote from the perspective of a High School pupil.
            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Christian3 View Post

              They can't. Israel was defending themselves.
              Yes, just like the school bully was 'just defending themselves' when the person they've bullied for years fights back.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                Yes, just like the school bully was 'just defending themselves' when the person they've bullied for years fights back.
                Let's compromise. There are about 200,000 Jews living in what is considered Palestinian territory, and about 400,000 Arabs living in Israel proper. How about we send all the Arabs to the Palestinian territory and all the Jews to Israel proper. Would that work for you? Why not?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                  Yes, just like the school bully was 'just defending themselves' when the person they've bullied for years fights back.
                  Sorry, but the Muslims have been bullying the Jews a hell of a lot longer than the Jews have been retaliating.
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  Stephen R. Donaldson

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                    Sorry, but the Muslims have been bullying the Jews a hell of a lot longer than the Jews have been retaliating.
                    They only tried to destroy them in three wars....
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by seer View Post


                      In 1875, the chief rabbis of Jerusalem purchased buildings in the neighborhood and registered their purchase with the Ottoman—and later, British—authorities. In 1948, with the Jordanian conquest of the neighborhood, the buildings were listed under Jordan's "Register of Enemy Property" and leased to local Arabs. After Israel liberated and unified Jerusalem in 1967, the Jewish landowners registered their buildings again with the Israel Land Authority and began a process that has dragged on ever since of attempting to restore sovereign control over their properties. The Arab tenants, for their part, recognized the Israeli Jewish ownership of the buildings in a 1982 lawsuit. But in the ensuing 39 years, they have appealed every court ruling requiring them to vacate the premises.

                      https://www.newsweek.com/what-stands...pinion-1590666





                      Giving back land then receiving literally thousands of missile attacks for your trouble is not a generalization it is a fact.
                      You are referring to one incident.

                      The Israelis have been systematic in bulldozing and/or forcing Palestinians from their homes. It is not an isolated event.
                      "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        You are referring to one incident.

                        The Israelis have been systematic in bulldozing and/or forcing Palestinians from their homes. It is not an isolated event.
                        Except this is the one that cause the recent dust up.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seer View Post


                          In 1875, the chief rabbis of Jerusalem purchased buildings in the neighborhood and registered their purchase with the Ottoman—and later, British—authorities. In 1948, with the Jordanian conquest of the neighborhood, the buildings were listed under Jordan's "Register of Enemy Property" and leased to local Arabs. After Israel liberated and unified Jerusalem in 1967, the Jewish landowners registered their buildings again with the Israel Land Authority and began a process that has dragged on ever since of attempting to restore sovereign control over their properties. The Arab tenants, for their part, recognized the Israeli Jewish ownership of the buildings in a 1982 lawsuit. But in the ensuing 39 years, they have appealed every court ruling requiring them to vacate the premises.

                          https://www.newsweek.com/what-stands...pinion-1590666




                          Giving back land then receiving literally thousands of missile attacks for your trouble is not a generalization it is a fact.
                          Its more complex than this---apparently a small part of history has been erased in the above narrative.

                          "In 1905, an Ottoman census that included Sheikh Jarrah and its surrounding areas found 97 Jewish families living in the area alongside 167 Muslim and six Christian families."
                          https://jewishunpacked.com/sheikh-ja...ind-the-story/

                          When this area came under Jordanian Jurisdiction---the displaced families were re-located on the legal terms of a 3 year lease after which they owned the property (lease-purchase)

                          "...in 1956, Jordan relocated 28 Palestinian families who were displaced during Israel’s War of Independence to Sheikh Jarrah. The move was approved by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), and the organization stipulated that the families would be given ownership of their homes after three years which would then end their refugee status."
                          https://jewishunpacked.com/sheikh-ja...ind-the-story/

                          ​​​​​​then the area changes hands again---and the rules/laws are changed....(again)
                          "Enter 1967. Nineteen years after 1948, East Jerusalem (including Sheikh Jarrah) came under Israeli control following the end of the Six Day War. "

                          ...and....


                          "A 1970 Israeli law is at the center of the legal debate over the evictions of the 58 Palestinians. The law gives Jewish Israelis the right to reclaim East Jerusalem properties that were once owned by Jews before 1948, as long as they could show proof of ownership or expulsion by the British or Jordanians. Palestinians who lost their land do not have the same legal right to sue for property lost after the war.

                          In 1972, the Sephardic Community Committee (which previously owned the tomb of Shimon Hatzadik) first sued for ownership over a property in the neighborhood, and the court ruled in their favor in 1976.

                          Then in 1982, residents signed a legal agreement that allowed them to remain in a Sheikh Jarrah property as long as their status changed from owner to tenant and that they would pay rent. Since then, the Palestinian signers say they were coerced into signing and no longer recognize the agreement."
                          https://jewishunpacked.com/sheikh-ja...ind-the-story/


                          In a nutshell---ALL parties have legally owned that land/property at one point or the other...its one big complicated mess......just as the history of I/P itself is too...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            The wording of the 1970 law is important---in that it limits the right to "Jewish Israelis" only---because many Palestinians also own documents that show their legal ownership of properties they were forcibly evicted from---but they cannot claim them because of that unfair stipulation.

                            ...an not just this area---large numbers of the original residents were forced out by Isreal govt and/or Jewish terrorist organizations. (ex--Irgun (Jewish terrorists) carried out attacks against the British and Arabs)
                            Last edited by siam; 05-14-2021, 10:02 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              And not just in France - everywhere that Jews lived. Gunter Demnig started the Stolpersteine project in 1992. There are now over 70,000 such "stumbling stones" across many cities within Europe that were occupied by the Nazis.

                              I am loath to state it but...there are disturbing parallels. among the behaviour of some Israelis and successive Israeli governments.

                              Is a "chosen people" that is interpreted in such a manner [i.e. by humiliating, displacing, and rendering certain people second class human being] so very different from the concept of a "Master Race" that could treat others inhumanely and brutally because it believed it had the inalienable right [and also the power] to do so?


                              This might be of interest https://www.breakingthesilence.org.i...onies/database.

                              And a couple of articles about that Human Rights group:

                              https://newint.org/features/web-excl...aeli-soldiers/
                              https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...oto-exhibition

                              From that Guardian article:

                              “The general feeling was that it was a quiet and very safe area,” he says. “When you’re at a checkpoint, you’re in a daily routine of controlling the lives of other people. Who enters and who doesn’t is in your hands – a 19-year-old kid with power.”

                              They would get agitated and taunt the Palestinians, denying entry or exit to those who said the “wrong” thing, or cuffing one to a barrier for having incorrect documentation. Looking for amusement, his unit handwrote bogus VIP permits for the Palestinians who crossed regularly. They were legally meaningless but added some fun to the long hours in the sun.

                              Once, an older man in his 50s arrived. He had one of these paper VIP permits, but that day, he came with a donkey. “Where was the donkey’s VIP pass? the soldiers demanded.

                              “We all laughed at the situation, including the Palestinian,” says Balely, now 30. “But looking back a few years later, I realize what being drunk with power combined with boredom can do to you. You toy with the life and livelihood of a person for entertainment.”
                              :
                              Prejudice can take many forms. Whatever excuse one comes up with to divide humanity into those that are deserving/superior and those that are not (inferior) leads to toxicity. Sometimes, ideas that are benign can turn toxic after a trauma---From a conversation with a Jewish person, I understand that the original intent of the "chosen people" concept was one of responsibility to become exemplars of a moral and ethical "way of life". The circumstances of the era of the World Wars created traumas that were then unfortunately replicated by the victims who turned into perpetrators.
                              It is a point to keep in mind---that wars create monsters. Waging war does not keep anyone safe---it only creates larger and larger vectors of harm.

                              Today some Jews are waking up to the toxicity that Jewish Zionism has become. It would be better for Judaism to restore its ethico-moral philosophy so that it can heal itself.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Today some Jews are waking up to the toxicity that Jewish Zionism has become---that Israel is a settler-colonial apartheid state.....

                                here are some Jewish opinions......





                                or...

                                https://www.patheos.com/blogs/writin...-antisemitism/

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