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Is Israel practising a form of apartheid?

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  • Is Israel practising a form of apartheid?

    The charity War on Want seems to think so
    https://waronwant.org/news-analysis/israeli-apartheid-factsheet

    There is overwhelming evidence that the system instituted by the Israeli government against the Palestinian people meets the UN definition of apartheid.

    In effect, Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory constitute one territorial unit under full Israeli control. Palestinians constitute around half of the total population (inside Israel and in the oPt), yet under Israeli law, and in practice, Jewish Israelis and Palestinians are treated differently in almost every aspect of life: housing, education, health, employment, family life, residence, and freedom of movement. Dozens of Israeli laws and policies institutionalise this prevailing system of racial discrimination and domination.

    Segregation is carried out by implementing separate legal regimes for Jewish Israelis and Palestinians living in the same area. In the occupied West Bank, Jewish Israeli settlers living in illegal settlements are governed by Israeli civil law, while Palestinians also living in the West Bank are governed by Israeli military law.

    In Israel itself, there exists no ‘Israeli’ nationality shared by all citizens, Jewish and non-Jewish alike. Rather, citizens are divided into ‘national’ categories of ‘Jewish’, which affords them a set of rights and privileges above the other categories, or ‘Arab’ with comparatively restricted rights and privileges. This separation was reiterated when Israel passed the Nation State Law in 2018, essentially codifying decades of discrimination and enshrining two classes of citizens in law.

    Israel carries out various acts that are prohibited by the UN Apartheid Convention including:
    • Forcible transfer of Palestinians to make way for illegal Israeli settlements.
    • Preventing Palestinians from returning to their homes and lands (including millions of refugees living in exile).
    • Systematic and severe deprivation of fundamental human rights of Palestinians based on their identity.
    • Denying Palestinians their right to freedom of movement and residence (especially, but not limited to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip).
    • Murder, torture, unlawful imprisonment and other severe deprivation of physical liberty.
    • Persecution of Palestinians because of their opposition to apartheid.

    So does Human Rights Watch.
    https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution

    Israeli authorities are committing the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. The finding is based on an overarching Israeli government policy to maintain the domination by Jewish Israelis over Palestinians and grave abuses committed against Palestinians living in the occupied territory, including East Jerusalem.

    The 213-page report, “A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution,” examines Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. It presents the present-day reality of a single authority, the Israeli government, ruling primarily over the area between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea, populated by two groups of roughly equal size, and methodologically privileging Jewish Israelis while repressing Palestinians, most severely in the occupied territory.

    Prominent voices have warned for years that apartheid lurks just around the corner if the trajectory of Israel’s rule over Palestinians does not change,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “This detailed study shows that Israeli authorities have already turned that corner and today are committing the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution.”

    The finding of apartheid and persecution does not change the legal status of the occupied territory, made up of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza, or the factual reality of occupation.

    Originally coined in relation to South Africa, apartheid today is a universal legal term. The prohibition against particularly severe institutional discrimination and oppression or apartheid constitutes a core principle of international law. The 1973 International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid and the 1998 Rome Statute to the International Criminal Court (ICC) define apartheid as a crime against humanity consisting of three primary elements:
    • An intent to maintain domination by one racial group over another.
    • A context of systematic oppression by the dominant group over the marginalized group.
    • Inhumane acts.
    The reference to a racial group is understood today to address not only treatment on the basis of genetic traits but also treatment on the basis of descent and national or ethnic origin, as defined in the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination. Human Rights Watch applies this broader understanding of race.

    The crime against humanity of persecution, as defined under the Rome Statute and customary international law, consists of severe deprivation of fundamental rights of a racial, ethnic, or other group with discriminatory intent.

    Human Rights Watch found that the elements of the crimes come together in the occupied territory, as part of a single Israeli government policy. That policy is to maintain the domination by Jewish Israelis over Palestinians across Israel and the occupied territory. It is coupled in the occupied territory with systematic oppression and inhumane acts against Palestinians living there.


    And Jews Say No is equally condemnatory.

    https://jewssayno.org/2021/05/
    We deplore Israel’s violation of sacred space during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. We are horrified by the mob violence and the paramilitary police who enable it. This is not a ‘clash’ between two opinions, this is occupation and apartheid at work.
    We reject Israel’s campaign to dispossess the Palestinians, including current efforts to evict families from Sheikh Jarrah. The New York Times notes, “A spokesman for the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Rupert Colville, said Friday that the evictions ‘would violate Israel’s obligations under international law’ prohibiting the forced transfer of residents from occupied territory…. [Aryeh] King, the deputy mayor, said ‘of course’ [the evictions] are part of a wider strategy of installing ‘layers of Jews’ throughout East Jerusalem.”
    We say, stop the evictions, and get the Israeli settlers out of occupied East Jerusalem. This is ethnic cleansing.
    Israel’s refusal to vaccinate the Palestinians whose land it occupies in Gaza and the West Bank has been condemned by UN Rapporteurs as “discriminatory and unlawful.” Covid is rampant and we plead with our governments to provide the lifesaving assistance that Israel is withholding.
    We call for an end to Israel’s impunity. These are crimes. We must begin to respond to them as crimes.






    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    There is overwhelming evidence that the system instituted by the Israeli government against the Palestinian people meets the UN definition of apartheid.
    First, I could care less what the UN considers apartheid or not. But the real question is should the Jews have their own state?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by seer View Post

      First, I could care less what the UN considers apartheid or not.
      Well you should take some heed of the UN. After all the USA helped to establish it.

      Originally posted by seer View Post
      But the real question is should the Jews have their own state?
      Of course the state of Israel should exist but that does not excuse Israel treating the Palestinians as a second class people or forcing them from their homes and land so that it may extend its living space.
      "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        The charity War on Want seems to think so
        https://waronwant.org/news-analysis/israeli-apartheid-factsheet

        There is overwhelming evidence that the system instituted by the Israeli government against the Palestinian people meets the UN definition of apartheid.

        In effect, Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory constitute one territorial unit under full Israeli control. Palestinians constitute around half of the total population (inside Israel and in the oPt), yet under Israeli law, and in practice, Jewish Israelis and Palestinians are treated differently in almost every aspect of life: housing, education, health, employment, family life, residence, and freedom of movement. Dozens of Israeli laws and policies institutionalise this prevailing system of racial discrimination and domination.

        Segregation is carried out by implementing separate legal regimes for Jewish Israelis and Palestinians living in the same area. In the occupied West Bank, Jewish Israeli settlers living in illegal settlements are governed by Israeli civil law, while Palestinians also living in the West Bank are governed by Israeli military law.

        In Israel itself, there exists no ‘Israeli’ nationality shared by all citizens, Jewish and non-Jewish alike. Rather, citizens are divided into ‘national’ categories of ‘Jewish’, which affords them a set of rights and privileges above the other categories, or ‘Arab’ with comparatively restricted rights and privileges. This separation was reiterated when Israel passed the Nation State Law in 2018, essentially codifying decades of discrimination and enshrining two classes of citizens in law.

        Israel carries out various acts that are prohibited by the UN Apartheid Convention including:
        • Forcible transfer of Palestinians to make way for illegal Israeli settlements.
        • Preventing Palestinians from returning to their homes and lands (including millions of refugees living in exile).
        • Systematic and severe deprivation of fundamental human rights of Palestinians based on their identity.
        • Denying Palestinians their right to freedom of movement and residence (especially, but not limited to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip).
        • Murder, torture, unlawful imprisonment and other severe deprivation of physical liberty.
        • Persecution of Palestinians because of their opposition to apartheid.

        So does Human Rights Watch.
        https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution

        Israeli authorities are committing the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. The finding is based on an overarching Israeli government policy to maintain the domination by Jewish Israelis over Palestinians and grave abuses committed against Palestinians living in the occupied territory, including East Jerusalem.

        The 213-page report, “A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution,” examines Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. It presents the present-day reality of a single authority, the Israeli government, ruling primarily over the area between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea, populated by two groups of roughly equal size, and methodologically privileging Jewish Israelis while repressing Palestinians, most severely in the occupied territory.

        Prominent voices have warned for years that apartheid lurks just around the corner if the trajectory of Israel’s rule over Palestinians does not change,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “This detailed study shows that Israeli authorities have already turned that corner and today are committing the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution.”

        The finding of apartheid and persecution does not change the legal status of the occupied territory, made up of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza, or the factual reality of occupation.

        Originally coined in relation to South Africa, apartheid today is a universal legal term. The prohibition against particularly severe institutional discrimination and oppression or apartheid constitutes a core principle of international law. The 1973 International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid and the 1998 Rome Statute to the International Criminal Court (ICC) define apartheid as a crime against humanity consisting of three primary elements:
        • An intent to maintain domination by one racial group over another.
        • A context of systematic oppression by the dominant group over the marginalized group.
        • Inhumane acts.
        The reference to a racial group is understood today to address not only treatment on the basis of genetic traits but also treatment on the basis of descent and national or ethnic origin, as defined in the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination. Human Rights Watch applies this broader understanding of race.

        The crime against humanity of persecution, as defined under the Rome Statute and customary international law, consists of severe deprivation of fundamental rights of a racial, ethnic, or other group with discriminatory intent.

        Human Rights Watch found that the elements of the crimes come together in the occupied territory, as part of a single Israeli government policy. That policy is to maintain the domination by Jewish Israelis over Palestinians across Israel and the occupied territory. It is coupled in the occupied territory with systematic oppression and inhumane acts against Palestinians living there.


        And Jews Say No is equally condemnatory.

        https://jewssayno.org/2021/05/
        We deplore Israel’s violation of sacred space during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. We are horrified by the mob violence and the paramilitary police who enable it. This is not a ‘clash’ between two opinions, this is occupation and apartheid at work.
        We reject Israel’s campaign to dispossess the Palestinians, including current efforts to evict families from Sheikh Jarrah. The New York Times notes, “A spokesman for the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Rupert Colville, said Friday that the evictions ‘would violate Israel’s obligations under international law’ prohibiting the forced transfer of residents from occupied territory…. [Aryeh] King, the deputy mayor, said ‘of course’ [the evictions] are part of a wider strategy of installing ‘layers of Jews’ throughout East Jerusalem.”
        We say, stop the evictions, and get the Israeli settlers out of occupied East Jerusalem. This is ethnic cleansing.
        Israel’s refusal to vaccinate the Palestinians whose land it occupies in Gaza and the West Bank has been condemned by UN Rapporteurs as “discriminatory and unlawful.” Covid is rampant and we plead with our governments to provide the lifesaving assistance that Israel is withholding.
        We call for an end to Israel’s impunity. These are crimes. We must begin to respond to them as crimes.





        Little to no question. It's become an Apartheid state.

        Actual survivors (including Jewish ones) of South Africa's Apartheid agree.

        A Rabbi who grew up in South Africa and fought the apartheid regime:
        https://truthout.org/articles/as-a-r...artheid-state/

        A Jewish activist who grew up in apartheid South Africa and fought the regime:
        https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-south-africa

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

          Little to no question. It's become an Apartheid state.

          Actual survivors (including Jewish ones) of South Africa's Apartheid agree.

          A Rabbi who grew up in South Africa and fought the apartheid regime:
          https://truthout.org/articles/as-a-r...artheid-state/

          A Jewish activist who grew up in apartheid South Africa and fought the regime:
          https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-south-africa
          I cannot disagree. And there is more. From 11 May 2021 https://politicstoday.org/the-evolut...-pariah-state/

          What makes HRW’s latest report, however, more significant than any other previous legal arguments regarding racism and apartheid in Israel, is its timing, as it was published shortly after the International Criminal Court (ICC) decided, despite intense Israeli lobbying and American pressure, to open an investigation of alleged war crimes committed in occupied Palestine.

          Though the ICC investigation does not, as of yet, include the Crime of Apartheid, future findings, especially with the HRW report in mind, could alter the course of the investigation. Indeed, the exhaustive HRW report certainly provides ample evidence that the crime of apartheid is, in fact, being committed and is widely spread, not only in occupied Palestine but also within historic Palestine, today’s Israel.


          Of course this will all be played out as wicked anti-Semitic hatred!
          "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes it is apartheid. (Legitimizing the entitlements of one group of people while legally systemizing the oppression and exploitation of another group of people)

            Zionism as an ideology is itself immoral. (Zionism=ethno-religious nationalism , and may include elements of state-sanctioned terrorism)
            It is the same ideology that underlies other ethno-nationalist movements such as the Buddhist 969 movement, Hindutva, ISIS, ....and others. The reason it is immoral is that it combines 3 artificial constructs to create one big ball of hatred and prejudice---a) ethnic identity b) religious identity, c) national identity.
            Such a combination along with state-sanction (law) and/or military (might), make this an easy/tempting tool to use for ethnic cleansing/genocide. The foundation/bedrock of ethno-religious nationalism is division not unity. It divides humanity into those that are "deserving" and those that are not.

            Unity---there is nothing wrong with the concept of Jewish people wanting to have a state (political entity) , or to have their religious identity respected, or for people to form groups of similar ethno-cultural traditions. As long as these rights/entitlements are equitably distributed to ALL humanity. The earth belongs equally to all its inhabitants---and none is superior/inferior to the other. The artificial construct of "nationalism" can become toxic if this ideology becomes a tool to promote injustice and division. When this happens---it is advisable to re-examine such ideologies and bring them back in line with justice and unity.
            Last edited by siam; 05-13-2021, 12:23 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              Of course the state of Israel should exist but that does not excuse Israel treating the Palestinians as a second class people or forcing them from their homes and land so that it may extend its living space.
              Those homes never belonged to the Palestinians in the first place. They were legal properties of Jewish families. Second, look at what happens when they give back land, like in Gaza - hundreds of missiles rain down on Israel proper. And how do the Jews live or negotiate with people sworn to their destruction?
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Those homes never belonged to the Palestinians in the first place. That is false. Yes some of these properties have been illegally purchased

                I assume you have heard of Plan Dalet finalised in March 1948? While the plan’s purpose has been debated by historians on both sides, the effect on the ground cannot. The plan was put into operation before the State of Israel even existed [that did not occur until May 1948]. The orders for this plan came with a detailed description of the methods to be employed to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation; laying siege to and bombarding villages and population centres; setting fire to homes, properties and goods; expulsion; demolition; and, finally, planting mines among the rubble to prevent any of the expelled inhabitants from returning. It has been argued that this Plan D was the first concerted attempt by fledgling Israel to pre-empt any future negotiations by force on the ground. Between 1947-1951 Israel’s drive to expand resulted in the Palestinian majority being replaced by Jewish immigrants from around the world. Over 400 Palestinian villages were destroyed and nearly one million people displaced and rendered homeless. That is fact.

                This policy has never stopped and hence we read regularly of Israel confiscating or seizing Palestinian land and homes. Hence the recent events of some two weeks ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9q9PDBsDe8

                Originally posted by seer View Post
                They were legal properties of Jewish families.
                On what evidence? How do Jewish migrants to Israel from all over the world suddenly just happen to have ownership of properties that have been lived in [often for generations] by Palestinians?


                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Second, look at what happens when they give back land, like in Gaza - hundreds of missiles rain down on Israel proper. And how do the Jews live or negotiate with people sworn to their destruction
                You think in generalisations and stereotypes that fit your own narrative.



                "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  I assume you have heard of Plan Dalet finalised in March 1948? While the plan’s purpose has been debated by historians on both sides, the effect on the ground cannot. The plan was put into operation before the State of Israel even existed [that did not occur until May 1948]. The orders for this plan came with a detailed description of the methods to be employed to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation; laying siege to and bombarding villages and population centres; setting fire to homes, properties and goods; expulsion; demolition; and, finally, planting mines among the rubble to prevent any of the expelled inhabitants from returning. It has been argued that this Plan D was the first concerted attempt by fledgling Israel to pre-empt any future negotiations by force on the ground. Between 1947-1951 Israel’s drive to expand resulted in the Palestinian majority being replaced by Jewish immigrants from around the world. Over 400 Palestinian villages were destroyed and nearly one million people displaced and rendered homeless. That is fact.

                  This policy has never stopped and hence we read regularly of Israel confiscating or seizing Palestinian land and homes. Hence the recent events of some two weeks ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9q9PDBsDe8

                  On what evidence? How do Jewish migrants to Israel from all over the world suddenly just happen to have ownership of properties that have been lived in [often for generations] by Palestinians?

                  ... [/COLOR][/FONT]


                  this is how----by replicating the laws used for holocaust....

                  "Laws were put in place that robbed the Jews of all property and assets. Impoverished, the Jews could no longer flee: the net was closing in on them. In France, an operation authorized by Hitler organized the seizure of homes abandoned by Jews: this was called Möbel-Aktion. When families were forced to leave their home, everything was seized by the Occupier. The apartments and homes seized were redistributed; furniture, jewellery, and clothing were stored in huge warehouses, and then sent as compensation to the victims of bombings in Germany.

                  In France, 46,000 houses and apartments were seized by the Nazis during the Occupation."
                  http://portrait-esther.fr/en/article31.html

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by siam View Post

                    this is how----by replicating the laws used for holocaust....

                    "Laws were put in place that robbed the Jews of all property and assets. Impoverished, the Jews could no longer flee: the net was closing in on them. In France, an operation authorized by Hitler organized the seizure of homes abandoned by Jews: this was called Möbel-Aktion. When families were forced to leave their home, everything was seized by the Occupier. The apartments and homes seized were redistributed; furniture, jewellery, and clothing were stored in huge warehouses, and then sent as compensation to the victims of bombings in Germany.

                    In France, 46,000 houses and apartments were seized by the Nazis during the Occupation."
                    http://portrait-esther.fr/en/article31.html
                    And not just in France - everywhere that Jews lived. Gunter Demnig started the Stolpersteine project in 1992. There are now over 70,000 such "stumbling stones" across many cities within Europe that were occupied by the Nazis.

                    I am loath to state it but...there are disturbing parallels. among the behaviour of some Israelis and successive Israeli governments.

                    Is a "chosen people" that is interpreted in such a manner [i.e. by humiliating, displacing, and rendering certain people second class human being] so very different from the concept of a "Master Race" that could treat others inhumanely and brutally because it believed it had the inalienable right [and also the power] to do so?


                    This might be of interest https://www.breakingthesilence.org.i...onies/database.

                    And a couple of articles about that Human Rights group:

                    https://newint.org/features/web-excl...aeli-soldiers/
                    https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...oto-exhibition

                    From that Guardian article:

                    “The general feeling was that it was a quiet and very safe area,” he says. “When you’re at a checkpoint, you’re in a daily routine of controlling the lives of other people. Who enters and who doesn’t is in your hands – a 19-year-old kid with power.”

                    They would get agitated and taunt the Palestinians, denying entry or exit to those who said the “wrong” thing, or cuffing one to a barrier for having incorrect documentation. Looking for amusement, his unit handwrote bogus VIP permits for the Palestinians who crossed regularly. They were legally meaningless but added some fun to the long hours in the sun.

                    Once, an older man in his 50s arrived. He had one of these paper VIP permits, but that day, he came with a donkey. “Where was the donkey’s VIP pass? the soldiers demanded.

                    “We all laughed at the situation, including the Palestinian,” says Balely, now 30. “But looking back a few years later, I realise what being drunk with power combined with boredom can do to you. You toy with the life and livelihood of a person for entertainment.”
                    :
                    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      On what evidence? How do Jewish migrants to Israel from all over the world suddenly just happen to have ownership of properties that have been lived in [often for generations] by Palestinians?

                      In 1875, the chief rabbis of Jerusalem purchased buildings in the neighborhood and registered their purchase with the Ottoman—and later, British—authorities. In 1948, with the Jordanian conquest of the neighborhood, the buildings were listed under Jordan's "Register of Enemy Property" and leased to local Arabs. After Israel liberated and unified Jerusalem in 1967, the Jewish landowners registered their buildings again with the Israel Land Authority and began a process that has dragged on ever since of attempting to restore sovereign control over their properties. The Arab tenants, for their part, recognized the Israeli Jewish ownership of the buildings in a 1982 lawsuit. But in the ensuing 39 years, they have appealed every court ruling requiring them to vacate the premises.

                      https://www.newsweek.com/what-stands...pinion-1590666

                      You think in generalisations and stereotypes that fit your own narrative.



                      Giving back land then receiving literally thousands of missile attacks for your trouble is not a generalization it is a fact.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        According to this article:

                        https://www.dw.com/en/israel-gaza-vi...ned/a-57501475

                        "Hamas said the deadly rocket strike was a response to the destruction of a 14-story building in Gaza after Israeli fighter jets dropped two bombs on it. Israel said the Al-Farouk tower housed the Hamas intelligence services."

                        Hamas: Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin said in 1987, and the Hamas Charter affirmed in 1988, that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine, including modern-day Israel, from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

                        Hamas is a terrorist organization that wants Israel to disappear from the face of the earth.

                        Last edited by Christian3; 05-14-2021, 10:24 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Christian3 View Post

                          Hamas: Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin said in 1987, and the Hamas Charter affirmed in 1988, that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine, including modern-day Israel, from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

                          Hamas is a terrorist organization that wants Israel to disappear from the face of the earth.
                          How could Israel negotiate with a peoples sworn to their destruction? Or trust them?

                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Kevin_lol.gif
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post

                              How could Israel negotiate with a peoples sworn to their destruction? Or trust them?
                              They can't. Israel was defending themselves.

                              Comment

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