Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

China's C19 Liability

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • China's C19 Liability

    I grant it's a single commentary but after the crisis come the lawsuits.



    COVID-19 Death Toll Now at 6.9 Million: China Should Pay at Least $19 Trillion in Damages for ‘Mass Murder’



    A new study found that the COVID-19 global death toll is double that of prior estimates by the World Health Organization. The WHO estimated 3.2 million deaths, but Director Chris Murray at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington told the Financial Times that “the actual toll is significantly worse.”

    A new IHME study estimates that the coronavirus killed 6.9 million. Not including economic damages from the lockdown, suffering to survivors, costs borne by society from hospitalization and new vaccines, future damages from the ongoing growth of the pandemic, or criminal penalties, China is already responsible for approximately $19 trillion in damages, according to my calculations.

    Deaths in the United States are estimated at nearly 900,000 rather than the 570,000 of prior estimates, according to the IHME study. India has an even worse underestimate, with actual deaths calculated at three times the official numbers. Russian deaths are now estimated at 593,000 rather than the official tally of 109,000. The Institute explained that test quality inconsistency and under-reporting of care facility deaths explain prior undercounts.

    The new mortality figures were calculated by subtracting pre-COVID death trends from the actual death trends during the pandemic. The University of Washington adjusted the estimate for indirect changes from the pandemic, for example higher deaths from fear of hospitals during the pandemic, and lower deaths from reduced vehicular traffic.

    The old underestimates tend to let China off the hook and ease government claims that they did well in limiting the effects of COVID. But China must not escape.

    Both the Trump and Biden administrations confirmed two key facts. First, the Wuhan lab concealed its work with China’s military. And second, several researchers exhibited COVID-like symptoms in Fall 2019.

    Analysts argue that China is legally responsible for the pandemic. Harvard Law professor James Kraska wrote in March: “As the novel coronavirus incubated in Wuhan from mid-December to mid-January, the Chinese state made evidently intentional misrepresentations to its people concerning the outbreak, providing false assurances to the population preceding the approach of the Lunar New Year celebrations on Jan. 25.”

    China expert Gordon Chang wrote in an email that the country “intentionally spread COVID-19 beyond its borders,” and called it a form of “mass murder.” He provided three major reasons for this conclusion.

    First, “the regime tried to convince the world that COVID-19 was not human-to-human transmissible when it knew that it was.”

    Second, after Beijing admitted the disease’s transmissibility, “it then attempted to convince the world that the disease would not lead to many infections and deaths when it knew that it already had, thereby misleading public health officials into not taking precautions they otherwise would have adopted.”

    And third, “China pressured [other countries] to not impose travel restrictions and quarantines when it was locking down its own country.”

    According to Chang, “Beijing simultaneously arguing that countries should not ban Chinese travelers while maintaining lockdowns unmistakably suggests an intent to spread the disease beyond China’s borders.” He argues that China “saw how COVID-19 had crippled China. If they wanted to cripple other societies with the virus, they would have done what they in fact did …. They maliciously spread the virus to the world.”

    According to Chang’s source, China’s National Health Commission ordered every lab, hospital, and other research facility in China to destroy samples of the coronavirus on Jan. 3. The intention could have been to destroy evidence. Chang said the destruction of samples was contrary to best practices during an epidemic. “The universal practice is to keep samples, especially during the early stages of an epidemic when they are needed for contact tracing and vaccine development.”

    The title of Professor Kraska’s March article concluded that claims against China for COVID-19 “could be in the trillions.” He wrote in an email that, “In the law deaths are calculated as an economic cost of the deceased’s expected earnings, potential inheritance and job benefits, and goods and services that they would have produced in their lifetime, plus the costs of their medical support and funeral expenses. In general, these costs have been in the $2.5-3.0 million range for a single person. These costs could (and should) be added to a claim against China for wrongful death, in my view.”
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

  • #2
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    I grant it's a single commentary but after the crisis come the lawsuits.



    COVID-19 Death Toll Now at 6.9 Million: China Should Pay at Least $19 Trillion in Damages for ‘Mass Murder’



    A new study found that the COVID-19 global death toll is double that of prior estimates by the World Health Organization. The WHO estimated 3.2 million deaths, but Director Chris Murray at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington told the Financial Times that “the actual toll is significantly worse.”

    A new IHME study estimates that the coronavirus killed 6.9 million. Not including economic damages from the lockdown, suffering to survivors, costs borne by society from hospitalization and new vaccines, future damages from the ongoing growth of the pandemic, or criminal penalties, China is already responsible for approximately $19 trillion in damages, according to my calculations.

    Deaths in the United States are estimated at nearly 900,000 rather than the 570,000 of prior estimates, according to the IHME study. India has an even worse underestimate, with actual deaths calculated at three times the official numbers. Russian deaths are now estimated at 593,000 rather than the official tally of 109,000. The Institute explained that test quality inconsistency and under-reporting of care facility deaths explain prior undercounts.

    The new mortality figures were calculated by subtracting pre-COVID death trends from the actual death trends during the pandemic. The University of Washington adjusted the estimate for indirect changes from the pandemic, for example higher deaths from fear of hospitals during the pandemic, and lower deaths from reduced vehicular traffic.

    The old underestimates tend to let China off the hook and ease government claims that they did well in limiting the effects of COVID. But China must not escape.

    Both the Trump and Biden administrations confirmed two key facts. First, the Wuhan lab concealed its work with China’s military. And second, several researchers exhibited COVID-like symptoms in Fall 2019.

    Analysts argue that China is legally responsible for the pandemic. Harvard Law professor James Kraska wrote in March: “As the novel coronavirus incubated in Wuhan from mid-December to mid-January, the Chinese state made evidently intentional misrepresentations to its people concerning the outbreak, providing false assurances to the population preceding the approach of the Lunar New Year celebrations on Jan. 25.”

    China expert Gordon Chang wrote in an email that the country “intentionally spread COVID-19 beyond its borders,” and called it a form of “mass murder.” He provided three major reasons for this conclusion.

    First, “the regime tried to convince the world that COVID-19 was not human-to-human transmissible when it knew that it was.”

    Second, after Beijing admitted the disease’s transmissibility, “it then attempted to convince the world that the disease would not lead to many infections and deaths when it knew that it already had, thereby misleading public health officials into not taking precautions they otherwise would have adopted.”

    And third, “China pressured [other countries] to not impose travel restrictions and quarantines when it was locking down its own country.”

    According to Chang, “Beijing simultaneously arguing that countries should not ban Chinese travelers while maintaining lockdowns unmistakably suggests an intent to spread the disease beyond China’s borders.” He argues that China “saw how COVID-19 had crippled China. If they wanted to cripple other societies with the virus, they would have done what they in fact did …. They maliciously spread the virus to the world.”

    According to Chang’s source, China’s National Health Commission ordered every lab, hospital, and other research facility in China to destroy samples of the coronavirus on Jan. 3. The intention could have been to destroy evidence. Chang said the destruction of samples was contrary to best practices during an epidemic. “The universal practice is to keep samples, especially during the early stages of an epidemic when they are needed for contact tracing and vaccine development.”

    The title of Professor Kraska’s March article concluded that claims against China for COVID-19 “could be in the trillions.” He wrote in an email that, “In the law deaths are calculated as an economic cost of the deceased’s expected earnings, potential inheritance and job benefits, and goods and services that they would have produced in their lifetime, plus the costs of their medical support and funeral expenses. In general, these costs have been in the $2.5-3.0 million range for a single person. These costs could (and should) be added to a claim against China for wrongful death, in my view.”
    Interesting article teal. Note the undercount estimates wrt covid deaths. And there is no doubt China did not deal appropriately with the initial outbreak. Coverups rarely workout well in the end, especially with something like a fatal disease.
    Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      I grant it's a single commentary but after the crisis come the lawsuits.



      COVID-19 Death Toll Now at 6.9 Million: China Should Pay at Least $19 Trillion in Damages for ‘Mass Murder’



      A new study found that the COVID-19 global death toll is double that of prior estimates by the World Health Organization. The WHO estimated 3.2 million deaths, but Director Chris Murray at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington told the Financial Times that “the actual toll is significantly worse.”

      A new IHME study estimates that the coronavirus killed 6.9 million. Not including economic damages from the lockdown, suffering to survivors, costs borne by society from hospitalization and new vaccines, future damages from the ongoing growth of the pandemic, or criminal penalties, China is already responsible for approximately $19 trillion in damages, according to my calculations.

      Deaths in the United States are estimated at nearly 900,000 rather than the 570,000 of prior estimates, according to the IHME study. India has an even worse underestimate, with actual deaths calculated at three times the official numbers. Russian deaths are now estimated at 593,000 rather than the official tally of 109,000. The Institute explained that test quality inconsistency and under-reporting of care facility deaths explain prior undercounts.

      The new mortality figures were calculated by subtracting pre-COVID death trends from the actual death trends during the pandemic. The University of Washington adjusted the estimate for indirect changes from the pandemic, for example higher deaths from fear of hospitals during the pandemic, and lower deaths from reduced vehicular traffic.

      The old underestimates tend to let China off the hook and ease government claims that they did well in limiting the effects of COVID. But China must not escape.

      Both the Trump and Biden administrations confirmed two key facts. First, the Wuhan lab concealed its work with China’s military. And second, several researchers exhibited COVID-like symptoms in Fall 2019.

      Analysts argue that China is legally responsible for the pandemic. Harvard Law professor James Kraska wrote in March: “As the novel coronavirus incubated in Wuhan from mid-December to mid-January, the Chinese state made evidently intentional misrepresentations to its people concerning the outbreak, providing false assurances to the population preceding the approach of the Lunar New Year celebrations on Jan. 25.”

      China expert Gordon Chang wrote in an email that the country “intentionally spread COVID-19 beyond its borders,” and called it a form of “mass murder.” He provided three major reasons for this conclusion.

      First, “the regime tried to convince the world that COVID-19 was not human-to-human transmissible when it knew that it was.”

      Second, after Beijing admitted the disease’s transmissibility, “it then attempted to convince the world that the disease would not lead to many infections and deaths when it knew that it already had, thereby misleading public health officials into not taking precautions they otherwise would have adopted.”

      And third, “China pressured [other countries] to not impose travel restrictions and quarantines when it was locking down its own country.”

      According to Chang, “Beijing simultaneously arguing that countries should not ban Chinese travelers while maintaining lockdowns unmistakably suggests an intent to spread the disease beyond China’s borders.” He argues that China “saw how COVID-19 had crippled China. If they wanted to cripple other societies with the virus, they would have done what they in fact did …. They maliciously spread the virus to the world.”

      According to Chang’s source, China’s National Health Commission ordered every lab, hospital, and other research facility in China to destroy samples of the coronavirus on Jan. 3. The intention could have been to destroy evidence. Chang said the destruction of samples was contrary to best practices during an epidemic. “The universal practice is to keep samples, especially during the early stages of an epidemic when they are needed for contact tracing and vaccine development.”

      The title of Professor Kraska’s March article concluded that claims against China for COVID-19 “could be in the trillions.” He wrote in an email that, “In the law deaths are calculated as an economic cost of the deceased’s expected earnings, potential inheritance and job benefits, and goods and services that they would have produced in their lifetime, plus the costs of their medical support and funeral expenses. In general, these costs have been in the $2.5-3.0 million range for a single person. These costs could (and should) be added to a claim against China for wrongful death, in my view.”
      I agree completely (and also think Fauci and our NIH bear responsibility for funding that lab and gain-of-function research there). Sadly the current puppet of China that heads our country is unlikely to do anything about it.

      Comment


      • #4
        China Joe will never hold Xi's feet to the fire. The Big Guy's gotta get paid, you know.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

          Interesting article teal. Note the undercount estimates wrt covid deaths. And there is no doubt China did not deal appropriately with the initial outbreak. Coverups rarely workout well in the end, especially with something like a fatal disease.
          I agree, but are you sure that YOU want to take that stand?

          The article not only implies the virus came from the Wuhan lab (the one Fauci's group was funding), but implies that China did this intentionally. I've always suspected it came from the lab, and so does Redfield and Gupta Sanjay, which you opposed. The undercounting they point out that you so relish is still speculative.
          Last edited by seanD; 05-08-2021, 12:55 PM.
          "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            I grant it's a single commentary but after the crisis come the lawsuits.



            COVID-19 Death Toll Now at 6.9 Million: China Should Pay at Least $19 Trillion in Damages for ‘Mass Murder’



            A new study found that the COVID-19 global death toll is double that of prior estimates by the World Health Organization. The WHO estimated 3.2 million deaths, but Director Chris Murray at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington told the Financial Times that “the actual toll is significantly worse.”

            A new IHME study estimates that the coronavirus killed 6.9 million. Not including economic damages from the lockdown, suffering to survivors, costs borne by society from hospitalization and new vaccines, future damages from the ongoing growth of the pandemic, or criminal penalties, China is already responsible for approximately $19 trillion in damages, according to my calculations.

            Deaths in the United States are estimated at nearly 900,000 rather than the 570,000 of prior estimates, according to the IHME study. India has an even worse underestimate, with actual deaths calculated at three times the official numbers. Russian deaths are now estimated at 593,000 rather than the official tally of 109,000. The Institute explained that test quality inconsistency and under-reporting of care facility deaths explain prior undercounts.

            The new mortality figures were calculated by subtracting pre-COVID death trends from the actual death trends during the pandemic. The University of Washington adjusted the estimate for indirect changes from the pandemic, for example higher deaths from fear of hospitals during the pandemic, and lower deaths from reduced vehicular traffic.

            The old underestimates tend to let China off the hook and ease government claims that they did well in limiting the effects of COVID. But China must not escape.

            Both the Trump and Biden administrations confirmed two key facts. First, the Wuhan lab concealed its work with China’s military. And second, several researchers exhibited COVID-like symptoms in Fall 2019.

            Analysts argue that China is legally responsible for the pandemic. Harvard Law professor James Kraska wrote in March: “As the novel coronavirus incubated in Wuhan from mid-December to mid-January, the Chinese state made evidently intentional misrepresentations to its people concerning the outbreak, providing false assurances to the population preceding the approach of the Lunar New Year celebrations on Jan. 25.”

            China expert Gordon Chang wrote in an email that the country “intentionally spread COVID-19 beyond its borders,” and called it a form of “mass murder.” He provided three major reasons for this conclusion.

            First, “the regime tried to convince the world that COVID-19 was not human-to-human transmissible when it knew that it was.”

            Second, after Beijing admitted the disease’s transmissibility, “it then attempted to convince the world that the disease would not lead to many infections and deaths when it knew that it already had, thereby misleading public health officials into not taking precautions they otherwise would have adopted.”

            And third, “China pressured [other countries] to not impose travel restrictions and quarantines when it was locking down its own country.”

            According to Chang, “Beijing simultaneously arguing that countries should not ban Chinese travelers while maintaining lockdowns unmistakably suggests an intent to spread the disease beyond China’s borders.” He argues that China “saw how COVID-19 had crippled China. If they wanted to cripple other societies with the virus, they would have done what they in fact did …. They maliciously spread the virus to the world.”

            According to Chang’s source, China’s National Health Commission ordered every lab, hospital, and other research facility in China to destroy samples of the coronavirus on Jan. 3. The intention could have been to destroy evidence. Chang said the destruction of samples was contrary to best practices during an epidemic. “The universal practice is to keep samples, especially during the early stages of an epidemic when they are needed for contact tracing and vaccine development.”

            The title of Professor Kraska’s March article concluded that claims against China for COVID-19 “could be in the trillions.” He wrote in an email that, “In the law deaths are calculated as an economic cost of the deceased’s expected earnings, potential inheritance and job benefits, and goods and services that they would have produced in their lifetime, plus the costs of their medical support and funeral expenses. In general, these costs have been in the $2.5-3.0 million range for a single person. These costs could (and should) be added to a claim against China for wrongful death, in my view.”
            First, “the regime tried to convince the world that COVID-19 was not human-to-human transmissible when it knew that it was.”

            Second, after Beijing admitted the disease’s transmissibility, “it then attempted to convince the world that the disease would not lead to many infections and deaths when it knew that it already had, thereby misleading public health officials into not taking precautions they otherwise would have adopted.”

            And third, “China pressured [other countries] to not impose travel restrictions and quarantines when it was locking down its own country.”
            I actually didn't know all those details. That puts a whole lot of perspective on the subject. That definitely looks intentional.

            I can sadly see why this would be covered up though. The implications of that are far worse than a lawsuit. That's a cause for war.
            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

            Comment


            • #7
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                Interesting article teal. Note the undercount estimates wrt covid deaths. And there is no doubt China did not deal appropriately with the initial outbreak. Coverups rarely workout well in the end, especially with something like a fatal disease.
                It's counting the deaths that resulted from the idiotic response to C19 - unless you think C19 causes cancer and suicide.

                Seriously, that was stupid.
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by seanD View Post

                  I agree, but are you sure that YOU want to take that stand?

                  The article not only implies the virus came from the Wuhan lab (the one Fauci's group was funding), but implies that China did this intentionally. I've always suspected it came from the lab, and so does Redfield and Gupta Sanjay, which you opposed. The undercounting they point out that you so relish is still speculative.
                  Look again at how they are counting - they are doing an economic impact, not an epidemiological count.

                  But I grant the speculative nature.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                    I agree completely (and also think Fauci and our NIH bear responsibility for funding that lab and gain-of-function research there). Sadly the current puppet of China that heads our country is unlikely to do anything about it.
                    Don't be so sure - we have only just sat down and the hotdog vendors aren't even doing the rounds yet, let alone seeing players on the field. Like baseball, it's a long game. Don't forfeit when our first batters aren't even on deck - yet!
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                      Look again at how they are counting - they are doing an economic impact, not an epidemiological count.

                      But I grant the speculative nature.
                      I've always believed that the abnormal rise in the death rate during covid was due to "deaths of despair," something that is downplayed by the covid cult. Ox believes the rise in the death rate proves that covid deaths have been undercounted because he's a covid fearmonger. I was just pointing out to him that the part of the article seemingly proving his point was speculative.

                      It was weird to me he praised the article just because of that one detail, yet ignored the fact the article also implies china did all this intentionally, a conspiracy theory that Ox has vehemently opposed in the past.
                      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sadly it is doubtful Winnie Xi Pooh or his cronies will face any real consequences when they have so much of the world in their pocket.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                          Interesting article teal. Note the undercount estimates wrt covid deaths. And there is no doubt China did not deal appropriately with the initial outbreak. Coverups rarely workout well in the end, especially with something like a fatal disease.
                          The count conclusion they came to was from the many, many deaths of despair, delayed cancer diagnoses, etc., that are a direct result of the faulty lockdown mentality that people like you pushed.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            Sadly it is doubtful Winnie Xi Pooh or his cronies will face any real consequences when they have so much of the world in their pocket.
                            Including the current occupant of the White House.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post

                              I've always believed that the abnormal rise in the death rate during covid was due to "deaths of despair," something that is downplayed by the covid cult. Ox believes the rise in the death rate proves that covid deaths have been undercounted because he's a covid fearmonger. I was just pointing out to him that the part of the article seemingly proving his point was speculative.

                              It was weird to me he praised the article just because of that one detail, yet ignored the fact the article also implies china did all this intentionally, a conspiracy theory that Ox has vehemently opposed in the past.
                              Okay, understood.
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by CivilDiscourse, Yesterday, 06:43 AM
                              9 responses
                              69 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post CivilDiscourse  
                              Started by CivilDiscourse, Yesterday, 06:27 AM
                              14 responses
                              55 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post CivilDiscourse  
                              Started by seer, 06-17-2021, 11:25 AM
                              7 responses
                              70 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post oxmixmudd  
                              Started by oxmixmudd, 06-17-2021, 11:16 AM
                              54 responses
                              325 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post eider
                              by eider
                               
                              Started by seanD, 06-16-2021, 11:57 PM
                              31 responses
                              188 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Gondwanaland  
                              Working...
                              X