Originally posted by CivilDiscourse
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The cancel culture and its comparable historical antecedents
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostGiven the criteria that H_A seeks to establish here, it is safe to say that we should be summarily dismiss virtually everything chronicled in written records. All of it goes straight to the rubbish bin.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
First of all, yes, the gospels do record firsthand eyewitness testimony.
Secondly, the burden is on you to prove that this testimony is unreliable.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Those accounts are not by eye-witnesses and furthermore, eye witnesses are often far from reliable.
Secondly, the burden is on you to prove that this testimony is unreliable.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostFWIU Vermeer died in obscurity with nearly everything he painted sold after his death with the names of other artists attached to them so they would sell!
The point being made is that "just because someone was a non-entity in life and when they died, it doesn't mean that they had no impact on the world." There's a number of examples, Emily Dickinson, Van Gogh, Vermeer, etc.
However, what we are seeing is instead of actually addressing the point, HA is instead arguing about the examples. Because if she can discredit the example, she doesn't have to actually address the actual point.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
I wonder why you clipped the last sentence from my post?
"And yet skeptics think it strange that there are 'only' four complete eye witness accounts about the ministry and teachings of Jesus."
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostFWIU Vermeer died in obscurity with nearly everything he painted sold after his death with the names of other artists attached to them so they would sell!
He certainly died in debt but that was in part due to the economic conditions in the Netherlands following its invasion by France in 1672. https://www.britannica.com/biography...orking-methods
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostPliny the Younger was a teenager who observed the eruption, albeit from the other side of the Bay of Naples. In later life he wrote two letters to Tacitus recounting his experience and the accounts he received concerning his uncle's death.
https://www.bartleby.com/9/4/1065.html
and
https://www.bartleby.com/9/4/1066.html
Of course it also possible that other sources did record the event but they have not come down to us.
"And yet skeptics think it strange that there are 'only' four complete eye witness accounts about the ministry and teachings of Jesus."
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
Christ is the reason Christian faith exists HA. On the night of His last Passover feast, he took it and its customary food and created what we practice as Communion. And during His ministry he used Baptism as a foundational sign of repentance, though it was His disciples that Baptized. He was of course Baptized himself by His cousin John. These two things are our only necessary deeds, our only necessary practices, and He instituted them. His teachings as they are recorded in the Gospels and the writings of His disciples form the basis for what every Christian has believed from the time of His ministry on Earth till now.
You are at least partially correct in that Jesus was Jewish by birth, and the longed for Messiah, and he did in fact take on that role. Not only did He take it on, he fulfilled it. Judaism and Christian faith are forever related in that way.
What you are doing here as you did in the previous comment is to take a distinctive of Christian faith and then use it to say something derogatory about Christian faith and practice. I'm not sure what is motivating you to do that, whether it is ignorance or hostility, but the implications you are drawing from these basic and well understand facts about who Jesus was are simply wrong.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
Yes, the eruption of Vesuvius is a curious one. It was a major cataclysmic event that would have been audible for possibly hundreds of miles with a smoke plume that could be seen for possibly thousands of miles, it destroyed several cities in what was a major economic and trading hub, killed possibly thousands of people and directly and indirectly impacted thousands more, and yet there is not one single contemporary account of it. Surely countless people knew about it, including eyewitnesses and friends and relatives of those who were killed, but nobody thought to put it down in writing until decades later.
https://www.bartleby.com/9/4/1065.html
and
https://www.bartleby.com/9/4/1066.html
Of course it also possible that other sources did record the event but they have not come down to us.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI believe that we once went over the rarity of contemporaneous literature from the ancient world, including works that would definitely have been copied multiple times for decades if not centuries, but are totally lost to us.
And yet here we have not one but four complete works, not just fragments of quotes like so many other works of the era, with three of them being compiled not long (a few decades) after His death. Considering that the people back then were overwhelmingly illiterate, meaning societies where oral tradition was strong, there was no need to rush anything into writing, but we still have these books from a time when there would still be a good number of eyewitnesses alive -- including a few key ones.
That is pretty much what we have for the great Carthaginian general Hannibal. You know, the guy who took the elephants through the Alps. Utterly annihilated a couple Roman armies in battle. There had to be an awful lot of ink spilled about him, not just while he was active but for the next generation. But the first time he's ever mentioned is somewhere between 40 and 80 years later by Polybius.
But for someone like Hannibal, someone we should had a virtual library full of contemporary references and allusions to, the first reference not being for some four to eight decades is perfectly understandable.
And as I previously noted the very earliest mention of the eruption of Vesuvius killing nearly a quarter million people and was not far from Naples, a city, renowned for having a higher than average literacy rate, comes three full decades later in an oft-hand remark by Pliny the Younger. And we have no mention that Herculaneum was also destroyed until Cassius Dio in the third century.
https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...y-and-theology
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
Oh no, I repeated folklore....:) Based on the fact that only one painting was ever offically sold.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAnd as I previously noted the very earliest mention of the eruption of Vesuvius killing nearly a quarter million people and was not far from Naples, a city, renowned for having a higher than average literacy rate, comes three full decades later in an oft-hand remark by Pliny the Younger. And we have no mention that Herculaneum was also destroyed until Cassius Dio in the third century.
Oh, and look what picture I stumbled across on the Wikipedia page for Pompeii.
800px-Pompei_-_Sappho_-_MAN.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompei...ppho_-_MAN.jpg
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostSeems I've read somewhere that the term "Christian" was originally intended to be disparaging, but those so called enthusiastically embraced it.
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