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The cancel culture and its comparable historical antecedents

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  • #46
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    I'm well aware of the method. Ill remind you Socrates was killed. Plus his questions tended to be more in depth.
    I've tried the method here myself a couple of times, but usually before I get called a Troll people just stop answering questions. I like the idea of not getting bogged down in rabbit trails because some part of one's response was not 100% in line with the meaning of the person's post one responded to. I also like the idea of getting at the presuppositions that cause us to see the same set of data differently. Plus people are usually more capable of owning up to a conclusion if they've derived it as a logical consequence themselves.

    But as we see here, people often interpret asking questions as 'avoiding an answer'.

    I find this comment on his death both enlightening and scary in light of the current trend in the GOP away from truth and towards a cult of personality:

    https://www.cam.ac.uk/news/socrates-...%20mob%20rule.

    Source: above

    He was found guilty of “impiety” and “corrupting the young”, sentenced to death, and then required to carry out his own execution by consuming a deadly potion of the poisonous plant hemlock. Politicians and historians have often used the trial to show how democracy can go rotten by descending into mob rule.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-06-2021, 12:30 PM.
    Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

      I've tried the method here myself a couple of times, but usually before I get called a Troll people just stop answering questions. I like the idea of not getting bogged down in rabbit trails because some part of one's response was not 100% in line with the meaning of the person's post one responded to. I also like the idea of getting at the presuppositions that cause us to see the same set of data differently. Plus people are usually more capable of owning up to a conclusion if they've derived it as a logical consequence themselves.

      But as we see here, people often interpret asking questions as 'avoiding an answer', or they'll just see what the logical conclusion is and get mad and stop cooperating with the dialogue.
      The thing is though, this is a discussion forum. low-effort posting isn't a discussion. It's like responding to a giant text message with "k". I've seen the game played by HA enough that I'm willing to call it early and risk missing sincere questions than get dragged down a rabbit hole of mangled, chopped up, posts that ignore half of what was said, cut out answers to questions being asked again, and straight up derailment.

      You set your tolerances based on the actual person you are dealing with. I've set mine for dealing with HA based on her past behavior.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        Your post expressed your opinions.
        I expressed more than that, specifically:

        The Bible provides clear guidelines about proper behavior and has a very rigidly defined procedure for administrating discipline. The goal is not to "cancel" the person but give him multiple opportunities to repent. "Cancel culture", on the other hand, is vague, has no defined procedure, and is purely vindictive in nature.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

          The thing is though, this is a discussion forum. low-effort posting isn't a discussion. It's like responding to a giant text message with "k". I've seen the game played by HA enough that I'm willing to call it early and risk missing sincere questions than get dragged down a rabbit hole of mangled, chopped up, posts that ignore half of what was said, cut out answers to questions being asked again, and straight up derailment.

          You set your tolerances based on the actual person you are dealing with. I've set mine for dealing with HA based on her past behavior.
          People on discussion boards will often try to make an end run around an opponent's argument by asking a series of shallow and transparently leading questions, and when called on it will claim (incorrectly) that they are using the Socratic Method of debate. Needless to say, Socrates questions were more honest and intellectually stimulating than what is offered by these kinds of trolls.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

            People on discussion boards will often try to make an end run around an opponent's argument by asking a series of shallow and transparently leading questions, and when called on it will claim (incorrectly) that they are using the Socratic Method of debate. Needless to say, Socrates questions were more honest and intellectually stimulating than what is offered by these kinds of trolls.
            Or, in the direction we were going down, I explicitly said that there was not a clean answer. (I.E. ending cancel culture isn't simple, it's complicated). I said we should start with X,Y,Z. Asking me to go into deep detail of something I said wasn't clean. Given that she complained to someone else "asking for simple answers to complex questions", I don't feel like going down the rabbit hole. Recognizing that something IS a problem is not the same as being able to have a full complete answer. But, given the poster's history, I don't think it really matters. Given that I started off the entire conversation with a statement that "The right loves canceling as much as the left" and one of her questions on "solutions" was "On both sides presumably?" shows that she wasn't really paying attention to the debate and just asking questions.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              Ooh look Sparko wants to cancel me!
              No, just telling people to ignore you in they are bothered by your trolling - pretty much the opposite of "canceling" you (which would be to ban you).

              carry on.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                Your post expressed your opinions. Simply because someone holds to a differing opinion from you it does not automatically follow that they are therefore, "ignorant".
                But when you post things that prove you know pretty much nothing about the subject, that's pretty much the definition of "ignorant". And when I point out that you are "ignorant" on a topic, I back it up.
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                  I find this comment on his death both enlightening and scary in light of the current trend in the GOP away from truth and towards a cult of personality:

                  https://www.cam.ac.uk/news/socrates-...%20mob%20rule.

                  Source: above

                  He was found guilty of “impiety” and “corrupting the young”, sentenced to death, and then required to carry out his own execution by consuming a deadly potion of the poisonous plant hemlock. Politicians and historians have often used the trial to show how democracy can go rotten by descending into mob rule.

                  © Copyright Original Source

                  I find it interesting that's how you interpret it. It seems pretty analogous to the Mob tactics of cancel culture. After all, the reason for Socrates trial was those in power essentially got fed up with his needling of people, and Cancel culture is all about punishing someone because of their offending a group of people.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                    I find it interesting that's how you interpret it. It seems pretty analogous to the Mob tactics of cancel culture. After all, the reason for Socrates trial was those in power essentially got fed up with his needling of people, and Cancel culture is all about punishing someone because of their offending a group of people.
                    I think it could be fairly applied to both. I am not 'for' the cancel culture thing. Though I tend to think you haven't yet seen cancel culture like you will see it if the those expressing fealty to Trump actually gain majority power in this country. Once/If those guys really get power, we are in for a very rough ride.
                    Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                      I think it could be fairly applied to both. I am not 'for' the cancel culture thing. Though I tend to think you haven't yet seen cancel culture like you will see it if the those expressing fealty to Trump actually gain majority power in this country. Once/If those guys really get power, we are in for a very rough ride.
                      You have such an incredibly skewed view of political reality. Nobody is "expressing fealty" to President Trump, and nobody on the right is trying to "cancel" anybody in the left. It's primarily originating with social media and mainstream media, which are largely controlled by liberals.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        So what do you propose we do with Biden and Cuomo?

                        Cuomo should be investigated.
                        I don't know that Biden did anything comparable.
                        OTOH, Trump should be prosecuted.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by kccd View Post

                          Cuomo should be investigated.
                          I don't know that Biden did anything comparable.
                          OTOH, Trump should be prosecuted.
                          Hey, welcome back!
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by kccd View Post

                            Cuomo should be investigated.
                            I don't know that Biden did anything comparable.
                            OTOH, Trump should be prosecuted.
                            Biden has something like seven or eight accusers including Tara Reade, and IIRC at least one is another Democrat Congressional staffer.

                            Then there were the stories of how, while Vice President, he continued insisted on taking evening swims in the pool -- in the nude. While he knew there were female Secret Service agents present. And those agents had made it clear his actions made them "uncomfortable.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Biden has something like seven or eight accusers including Tara Reade, and IIRC at least one is another Democrat Congressional staffer.

                              Then there were the stories of how, while Vice President, he continued insisted on taking evening swims in the pool -- in the nude. While he knew there were female Secret Service agents present. And those agents had made it clear his actions made them "uncomfortable.
                              Perhaps that was the beginning of his lunacy?


                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                But when you post things that prove you know pretty much nothing about the subject, that's pretty much the definition of "ignorant". And when I point out that you are "ignorant" on a topic, I back it up.
                                Posting sections from articles merely shows you know how to Google.

                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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