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  • #61
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    It's the opposite. When Democrats are out of power, they always talk about "compromise" and "reaching across the aisle" (and a lot of Republicans traditionally go along with it). When they're in power, their tune suddenly becomes, "We won, so sit down and shut up."
    Not based on my observations. When they're out of power, they go to war against the opposing party. A "take no hostages" mentality, as seen with Trump. Vicious - impeaching anything that moves.

    When they're in power, they say "let's all just be friends". They talk compromise and bipartisanship, but it is just a strategy to get a mandate for their leftist programs. They can get them anyway because they have the votes, but they want it to be easy, and they want the public to think they're leading the way.

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    • #62
      I think both of you are right.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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      • #63
        Cow Poke for Diplomat!

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
          Cow Poke for Diplomat!
          I can be.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

            It's the opposite. When Democrats are out of power, they always talk about "compromise" and "reaching across the aisle" (and a lot of Republicans traditionally go along with it). When they're in power, their tune suddenly becomes, "We won, so sit down and shut up."
            Like after the Obamessiah won in 2008. He refused to talk with Republicans with the exception being to deliver a sneering lecture about how he won and elections have consequences where he haughtily told then House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (when the latter offered to negotiate on the stimulus package):

            Look at the polls. The polls are pretty good for me right now. Elections have consequences. And Eric, I won.


            Obama's then Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, he of "never let a crisis go to waste" notoriety, in his usual cordial manner, put it another way: "We have the votes. F-word them."

            According to Bob Woodward in his Price of Politics, Obama and the Democrats in the House and Senate refused to consider a single Republican proposal during the first two years. And after the Republican landslide in 2010 Obama literally had to ask his aides if they knew how to contact the incoming Republican leadership because he never talked to them before.

            The joke in Washington has been for years that the definition of "bipartisan" for a Democrat is whenever a Republican agrees with them.

            But that was then. Now some are trying to redefine "bipartisan" so that the Democrats can claim (and the MSM to dutifully repeat) that they have bipartisanship without ever getting a single Republican to vote for anything. All they have to do now is find a poll showing that some Republicans are in favor of whatever bill.

            Considering their Orwellian efforts at redefining "court packing" and "infrastructure" as well as proclaiming riots are now "mostly peaceful protests," I doubt anyone is too surprised.


            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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            • #66
              Originally posted by seanD View Post

              Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Some Dems got so power hungry with lockdowns the courts had to actually get involved.
              IiRC most of that was trying to balance good health policy with certain churches trying to leverage freedom of religion as a means to allow irresponsible practices to be excused.

              There were some cases that did involve overreach when reactions to certain groups acting irresponsibly led to laws that overreached trying to bring them back to a responsible position. But that is the job of the courts - to keep things in proper balance.
              Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                FWIU, one of the very reasons that Cuomo was such a darling of the left was that he followed what the doctors were saying, unlike OMB. Much the same with Newsome. Both repeatedly issuing strict lockdowns (and in both cases ignoring it themselves).

                Also, in Trump's case (and to a much lesser degree the governors), he had to walk a razor's edge between what's best medically and what's best economically as well. If we sent our economy spiraling into another Great Depression the cost both financially as well as the human toll would be stupendous. That's an actual risk if we follow the science 100%. And it is a position to be stuck in that I'd wish on nobody.
                I don't know what to say. It's almost as if you were not alive and watching what Trump did over the course of the pandemic.

                Overall, I believe my point is that you are too eager to place all the blame on Trump for things he often had no control or responsibility. Now, please, allow me a chance to support my conclusion before you start responding
                Same comment.


                For instance, after BtC informed you that it is the governors who are in charge of many of the things you had found fault over, you immediately shifted to find another way to blame Trump.
                Trump both abdicated his responsibility in some cases and hindered the state level response in others. Where interstate coordination was needed, he refused. Where federal funding was needed to allow the states to do the task delegated to them, he also dropped the ball. He interfered with critical agencies like the cdc wrt policy whenever the right decision appeared to go against what he believed or might interfere with his chances at reelection. Sometimes he went so far as to differentiate aid based on Democrat vs republican. The list is long wrt what Trump did that allowed so many more to die than needed to die.


                That the governors were following the lead of Trump - including those who don't like him because he fears their base. This is why I pointed out that the governors of two of our largest states, and who have absolutely nothing to fear from Trump supporters (being in states that are nearly as blue as you can get), have well-known terrible records that you just can't blame Trump for.
                I already went over what their mistakes were. Newsome caved to at least in part trumpian generated pressure to reopen too soon. Cuomo made a completely different kind of mistake all his own. As I said, neither instance changes the massive impact of Trump's irresponsibility and incompetence on the covid Death toll.

                Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                  I disagree. I think it was part knee-jerk panic, combined with Left-leaners getting on a control kick (notice it was mostly Democrat governors that were the biggest lockdown proponents).
                  One of the major lies circulated during the pandemic was that this virus was no worse than the flu. This was most prevalent and most believed in conservative circles and republican lawmakers. It is that skepticism of the danger of the virus on the republican side that drove the difference, not a desire for control by democratic policy makers. Although it could well be to some extent both.


                  Masks, hand sanitizer, proper indoor ventilation, just enhanced hygiene would have been sufficient, IMO.
                  An opinion not backed up by science. We can discuss that more if you like.


                  Then how do you explain the disparity between political parties and the lockdowns?
                  I just did above. The disparity was caused by a combination if ignorance and fealty to Trump.


                  I appreciate your newfound diplomacy. Partisanship is going to happen no matter what. Honestly, it seems to me that I always hear calls for cooperation and bipartisanship whenever Democrats control Washington. When they are out of power, it seems like all-out political war to me.
                  I agree that partisanship has gone both ways most of the time. But at this point it is completely out of control, and fealty to Trump and his corrupt way of dealing with the world are the cause of the most recent extreme escalation of the acrimony in public discourse and policy.
                  Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-06-2021, 10:39 PM.
                  Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                    I don't know what to say. It's almost as if you were not alive and watching what Trump did over the course of the pandemic.

                    Same comment.
                    To quote Jonathan Swift from his Polite Conversation (where he essentially paraphrases Jer. 5:21):

                    There are none so blind as those who will not see


                    Your OMB-blinders are blatantly obvious.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment

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