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Top teachers union lobbied CDC on school reopening

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  • #16
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    I'm sure that their are incidences where they could serve a purpose but there is a reason that membership in the public sector has been plummeting for decades.
    You mean private sector -- it's declining, while public sector unions are soaring, because of GUBMINT.

    When I was in my 20s everyone of my friends who worked at Lockheed belonged to the union and were strong supporters. They stood on picket lines, they made life hard for "scabs" and other non-union employees. But over the years every single one dropped their membership until none belonged to the union by 2000.
    Yup.

    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      You mean private sector -- it's declining, while public sector unions are soaring, because of GUBMINT.
      Indeed I did.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #18
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post

        Indeed I did.
        See, I KNOW you know the difference, but I think that's what a lot of people don't get ---- that the PUBLIC sector unions (police, fire, teachers) by their very nature, pit the employees (especially the bad ones) against the entities that pay their salaries.

        Unions represent our police, fire and teachers (among others) against WE THE PEOPLE.

        I'm not nearly concerned about a private company that has to battle unions -- that's their problem. Public sector unions are OUR problem.

        And that's one of the major factors, I think, which H_A simply cannot grasp in her claim that there should be a National Police Unions for ALL police departments.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          See, I KNOW you know the difference, but I think that's what a lot of people don't get ---- that the PUBLIC sector unions (police, fire, teachers) by their very nature, pit the employees (especially the bad ones) against the entities that pay their salaries.

          Unions represent our police, fire and teachers (among others) against WE THE PEOPLE.

          I'm not nearly concerned about a private company that has to battle unions -- that's their problem. Public sector unions are OUR problem.

          And that's one of the major factors, I think, which H_A simply cannot grasp in her claim that there should be a National Police Unions for ALL police departments.
          And a number of big name pro-union folks from the first half of the 20th cent. explicitly warned against allowing government employees to unionize.


          Remember how back in the 70s there was talk of unionizing the military? I think the Dutch had just done it and some here wanted to emulate them. Can you imagine a unionized military during a time of war?

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            And a number of big name pro-union folks from the first half of the 20th cent. explicitly warned against allowing government employees to unionize.


            Remember how back in the 70s there was talk of unionizing the military? I think the Dutch had just done it and some here wanted to emulate them. Can you imagine a unionized military during a time of war?
            Cmon, man... Putting "labor unions" in charge of our Military --- what could POSSIBLY go wrong?
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              Cmon, man... Putting "labor unions" in charge of our Military --- what could POSSIBLY go wrong?
              Hey, after 12 years in the Navy, a peacetime union would've been welcomed. I had a supervisor once decide to keep my entire team on the boat cleaning for 12 hours during the Command Picnic because he didn't want to go. It definitely has it's fair share of petty little dictators. A scenario that's really bad when you have a group of people who can't quit, and the petty dictators can control a very large portion of their lives, even beyond the job.
              Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 05-04-2021, 10:05 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                Unions CAN be good, but I see why he came to that conclusion. Think about it.
                I most certainly think they had their day!
                Depending on laws to protect them, unions are helpful for unskilled workers. Teachers and police don't qualify.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                  Depending on laws to protect them, unions are helpful for unskilled workers. Teachers and police don't qualify.
                  Let's go with that --- what protections do unskilled workers need today that can be provided by unions but are not already provided by labor laws?
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Let's go with that --- what protections do unskilled workers need today that can be provided by unions but are not already provided by labor laws?
                    I meant, depending on laws to protect unions.

                    Collective bargaining for better wages and conditions, and the ability to call a strike and picket. I only belonged to a union for a short time when I first started working (in construction, I was in a lathing union). I hated the union and the occupation. Left and never went back to either.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                      I meant, depending on laws to protect unions.

                      Collective bargaining for better wages and conditions, and the ability to call a strike and picket.
                      When I was a kid, I worked for Ford, and was a member of UAW 425 --- we went on strike (if you remember, the various manufacturers took turns -- this year it was Ford's turn to strike) just before Christmas, and it was SO costly to my family, and during that (I think it was like 6 or 7 weeks) it wiped out what little savings I had, destroyed my credit, hurt my family.... And the "benefits" that we got that were 'better' were so minimal it was sickening. I think somebody did a study on how long it takes the "new benefits" to offset the losses during a strike. What they don't factor in is how long it takes to build up your credit again, and to replenish your savings...

                      I hated the union -- standing out there "on picket duty" for "strike pay" of something like $140 a week. And if the union didn't call a strike in a given year, they'd throw a big Christmas party with open bars where everybody would get drunk and do stupid stuff.

                      I only belonged to a union for a short time when I first started working (in construction, I was in a lathing union). I hated the union and the occupation. Left and never went back to either.
                      OK, so --- how bout collective bargaining in a public sector job? Like the police coming down with "the Blue Flu" or something?

                      (and, as a side -- I WAS A LATHER for a short time in college - a local machine shop where they really wanted me to take on an apprenticeship! I actually enjoyed running a lathe, but it seemed like the same thing over and over and over --- and eventually, all that was replaced in that machine shop with CNC stuff)

                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        When I was a kid, I worked for Ford, and was a member of UAW 425 --- we went on strike (if you remember, the various manufacturers took turns -- this year it was Ford's turn to strike) just before Christmas, and it was SO costly to my family, and during that (I think it was like 6 or 7 weeks) it wiped out what little savings I had, destroyed my credit, hurt my family.... And the "benefits" that we got that were 'better' were so minimal it was sickening. I think somebody did a study on how long it takes the "new benefits" to offset the losses during a strike. What they don't factor in is how long it takes to build up your credit again, and to replenish your savings...

                        I hated the union -- standing out there "on picket duty" for "strike pay" of something like $140 a week. And if the union didn't call a strike in a given year, they'd throw a big Christmas party with open bars where everybody would get drunk and do stupid stuff.
                        Understood. I only belonged to a union for approximately six months and we never went on strike. I entered into lathing at a relatively strong wage so I was impressed with that, but I didn't like how it issued orders and seemed to remove my independence.

                        OK, so --- how bout collective bargaining in a public sector job? Like the police coming down with "the Blue Flu" or something?
                        Reagan answered that one, when he fired all of the traffic-control strikers.

                        (and, as a side -- I WAS A LATHER for a short time in college - a local machine shop where they really wanted me to take on an apprenticeship! I actually enjoyed running a lathe, but it seemed like the same thing over and over and over --- and eventually, all that was replaced in that machine shop with CNC stuff)
                        Wrong type of "lathing." This was part of the "Lath & Plaster" construction trade, where we would staple chicken wire and tarp on buildings in preparation for the "plasterers" to apply the plaster. It was a very popular type of construction in California for decades (might still be) since brick and mortar doesn't withstand earthquakes very well.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          Wrong type of "lathing." This was part of the "Lath & Plaster" construction trade, where we would staple chicken wire and tarp on buildings in preparation for the "plasterers" to apply the plaster. It was a very popular type of construction in California for decades (might still be) since brick and mortar doesn't withstand earthquakes very well.
                          OOOOOhhhhhh!!!! Mine was a machine shop where we made missile nose cones. They were SO DURN EXACTING on their tolerances --- picky, picky, picky!!!!

                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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