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  • #46
    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

    First day of a class early last year (before we went remote), I had a student tell the class the moon landings were faked. After giving him some room to back off, asking if he was just trying to be "edgy," I waxed on the reflectors we left on the moon to bounce lasers off of, that were responsible for the amazingly accurate distance measurements we have today. Despite my best efforts he became increasingly sullen and dropped the class the next day.

    I'm still bothered by the fact I wasn't able to turn him around gracefully. I don't know what else I could have done, but I'm certain there must have been a way, and I just missed it.
    You made 2 mistakes: embarrassing him rather than just disagreeing and offering evidence that he was guaranteed not to find compelling.

    It sounds like you forgot to ask the obvious - why? Is it the flag thing ? If so something simple like 'a lot of people think that' followed by a brief mention of the conservation of motion. It sounds like instead you inadvertently backed him into a corner.

    The evidence you offered was useless - and a college kid up against a professor isn't going to be able to defend an unprepared case and that was probably part of why he didn't tell you the obvious: if 'they' can fake the moon landing then faking results from mythical reflectors is a snap.

    You've just been playing in Nat Sci too much - you jumped the gun and provided evidence that was compelling to you but which doesn't address his actual concern.

    If you get another chance try just engaging him - let him tell you what makes him believe that, mildly disagree and leave it at that. That may get him past his bruised ego and possibly get him to think about it some more.

    Also, don't sweat it - he's probably better off with a different professor. It happens - sometimes even good professors and good students aren't good for each other..


    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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    • #47
      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
      Her sister does not at all come across as a loon. That's why we were both gobsmacked to hear this theory. It's like suddenly discovering in the course of routine conversation that a person you've long regarded as intelligent and apparently normal believes the moon landings were faked.
      Were any of you guys around for 2020? The whole year was like a novel written by a twelve year old and edited by his younger sister.

      This theory seems about as plausible as any of the craziness that actually happened.

      Except the hanging - Clinton was more the lethal injection sort...

      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

      Quill Sword

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      • #48
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        If you want to see something interesting colorized, someone took some old films from the streets of NYC from 1911. I think they added sound because even Hollywood couldn't make talkies in 1911. But on occasion you'll see parts of someone's clothes change from blue to brown.

        One question arises out of watching this though. Was it a law that you had to wear a hat back then?
        The sound is likely contemporary - it was the matching sound to image that they couldn't do. It was probably adjusted when they remastered it.

        "Talkies' were the bane of the technician's existence - and another 14 years away, if memory serves.


        Yes, hats were mandatory.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

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        • #49
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Ironic, that you brought him up though because one of Hillary's (Clinton that is) favorite stories was how she was named after the intrepid explorer. One would think given how she's "the smartest woman in America" that she would have noticed at some point that he didn't make the climb until 1953 and she was born in 1947. So if she were named after Edmund Hillary, it was back when he was still an unknown beekeeper. Anwho... this all exploded in her face when during a trip to New Zealand, where Edmund Hillary is a national hero, she repeated this claim. She had the record set straight quite promptly.
          Quite a bit of fake news here. I've highlighted the worst falsehoods in your account above.

          AFAICT, Hillary made the statement once. It was not her "favorite story", it was not in her autobiography.

          She did so when visiting Nepal (which, for the geographically challenged is not New Zealand, and is not remotely close to New Zealand) in 1995, where she happened to meet Edmund Hillary, and then talked to reporters and made the claim about her name. It was quickly forgotten. I am unable to find any instances of Hillary repeating the claim in public. Nor find any controversy about it over the years following.

          This was never a controversial issue in New Zealand, and it never "exploded in her face" during any trips here. She is generally well-liked in New Zealand. To the best of my knowledge there have never been any headline articles here in New Zealand about this story.

          In 2004 the story was mentioned by her husband in his autobiography, which did lead to public controversy about it, as Republicans pointed out it was unlikely to be true given the timing. Hillary's spokesperson then admitted that given the timing it was probably false and said Hillary's mother had probably made it up.

          Ironically though, I would like to note that it's actually possible Hillary's mother was truthful. At the time of Hillary's birth there were articles being written about Edmund Hillary. While he wasn't, by that point, the world-famous first climber of Mount Everest that he would later become, he was still sufficiently famous to get articles written about him, and there was a reason the expedition chose him to be the person to send to the top of Everest. It's not at all impossible that having seen an article about him that Hillary's mother assumed the correct spelling of Hilary was with 2 Ls and so spelled the name that way. The fact-checkers have been unable to find an article about him in American sources at that time, and so assume Hillary's mother probably didn't see a article about him, but there certainly were articles about him at that time in New Zealand so it's not impossible that Hillary's mother somehow saw such an article. They might not have had the internet in those days, but people did send letters and post articles to others.
          Last edited by Starlight; 05-05-2021, 01:07 AM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Anything in Kansas is B&W

            Anything in Oz is color.
            Gotcha!!!
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since youíve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?Ē

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              Quite a bit of fake news here. I've highlighted the worst falsehoods in your account above.

              AFAICT, Hillary made the statement once. It was not her "favorite story", it was not in her autobiography.

              She did so when visiting Nepal (which, for the geographically challenged is not New Zealand, and is not remotely close to New Zealand) in 1995, where she happened to meet Edmund Hillary, and then talked to reporters and made the claim about her name. It was quickly forgotten. I am unable to find any instances of Hillary repeating the claim in public. Nor find any controversy about it over the years following.

              This was never a controversial issue in New Zealand, and it never "exploded in her face" during any trips here. She is generally well-liked in New Zealand. To the best of my knowledge there have never been any headline articles here in New Zealand about this story.

              In 2004 the story was mentioned by her husband in his autobiography, which did lead to public controversy about it, as Republicans pointed out it was unlikely to be true given the timing. Hillary's spokesperson then admitted that given the timing it was probably false and said Hillary's mother had probably made it up.

              Ironically though, I would like to note that it's actually possible Hillary's mother was truthful. At the time of Hillary's birth there were articles being written about Edmund Hillary. While he wasn't, by that point, the world-famous first climber of Mount Everest that he would later become, he was still sufficiently famous to get articles written about him, and there was a reason the expedition chose him to be the person to send to the top of Everest. It's not at all impossible that having seen an article about him that Hillary's mother assumed the correct spelling of Hilary was with 2 Ls and so spelled the name that way. The fact-checkers have been unable to find an article about him in American sources at that time, and so assume Hillary's mother probably didn't see a article about him, but there certainly were articles about him at that time in New Zealand so it's not impossible that Hillary's mother somehow saw such an article. They might not have had the internet in those days, but people did send letters and post articles to others.
              You start off well enough with fact, then veer into total fantasy. From those right wing radicals at Snopes...

              However, how likely was Dorothy Rodham, a Chicago housewife, to have seen an article about a New Zealand mountain climber? We performed a comprehensive search of several major American newspapers (including the Chicago Tribune) and found that none of them made any mention of Edmund Hillary whatsoever prior to June 1953, so it’s fair to say that the American media paid him little note prior to his successful assault on Mt. Everest that year.


              But you are to be congratulated on your Olympic class conclusion jumping!
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since youíve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?Ē

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Quite a bit of fake news here. I've highlighted the worst falsehoods in your account above.

                AFAICT, Hillary made the statement once. It was not her "favorite story", it was not in her autobiography.

                She did so when visiting Nepal (which, for the geographically challenged is not New Zealand, and is not remotely close to New Zealand) in 1995, where she happened to meet Edmund Hillary, and then talked to reporters and made the claim about her name. It was quickly forgotten. I am unable to find any instances of Hillary repeating the claim in public. Nor find any controversy about it over the years following.

                This was never a controversial issue in New Zealand, and it never "exploded in her face" during any trips here. She is generally well-liked in New Zealand. To the best of my knowledge there have never been any headline articles here in New Zealand about this story.

                In 2004 the story was mentioned by her husband in his autobiography, which did lead to public controversy about it, as Republicans pointed out it was unlikely to be true given the timing. Hillary's spokesperson then admitted that given the timing it was probably false and said Hillary's mother had probably made it up.

                Ironically though, I would like to note that it's actually possible Hillary's mother was truthful. At the time of Hillary's birth there were articles being written about Edmund Hillary. While he wasn't, by that point, the world-famous first climber of Mount Everest that he would later become, he was still sufficiently famous to get articles written about him, and there was a reason the expedition chose him to be the person to send to the top of Everest. It's not at all impossible that having seen an article about him that Hillary's mother assumed the correct spelling of Hilary was with 2 Ls and so spelled the name that way. The fact-checkers have been unable to find an article about him in American sources at that time, and so assume Hillary's mother probably didn't see a article about him, but there certainly were articles about him at that time in New Zealand so it's not impossible that Hillary's mother somehow saw such an article. They might not have had the internet in those days, but people did send letters and post articles to others.
                You're right it was in Nepal where Hillary met Sir Edmund Hilary and told him she was named after him, but even after getting schooled she continued with the lie. And even after a Clinton spokesperson, Jennifer Hanley, was forced to walk the story back in 2006 she continued.

                It resurfaced in a speech in 2008 but her made up claims about being under direct fire in Bosnia and had to run for cover "with our heads down" got nearly all the attention[1]. It again appeared in Bill Clinton's autobiography in 2004.

                Moreover, it was a "favorite story" back prior to her meeting with Edmund Hilary. One that got told several times when her husband ran for president in '92 and one she would regale folks with back in Little Rock, Arkansas when Bill was still governor. But even after it was exposed and walked back it still would surface from time to time.

                And Snopes looked into the angle that her mother might have heard about Edmund prior to that since he had made the news, but could find no indication such stories ever appeared in papers that she would have had access to. And the fact that her spokesman ended up dismissing the claim as nothing more than "a sweet family story her mother shared to inspire greatness in her daughter, to great results I might add" drives a stake through any attempts to turn this pile of bovine scat into the truth (or is this more of the left's "choos[ing] truth over facts"?).




                1. subsequent film footage shows her completely safe and that only time she bent her head down was to kiss a young Muslim girl who had read a poem in her honor.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  If you want to see something interesting colorized, someone took some old films from the streets of NYC from 1911. I think they added sound because even Hollywood couldn't make talkies in 1911. But on occasion you'll see parts of someone's clothes change from blue to brown.

                  One question arises out of watching this though. Was it a law that you had to wear a hat back then?
                  Didn't all men wear hats until handsome King John of Camelot changed fashion trends in the early '60s?
                  Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                  Beige Nationalist.

                  "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                  Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Gotcha!!!
                    I've heard it was a big deal at the time.

                    As I understand it, "color" was just becoming "a thing," and they took advantage of the transition very creatively.
                    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                    Beige Nationalist.

                    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      You're right it was in Nepal where Hillary met Sir Edmund Hilary and told him she was named after him, but even after getting schooled she continued with the lie. And even after a Clinton spokesperson, Jennifer Hanley, was forced to walk the story back in 2006 she continued.

                      It resurfaced in a speech in 2008 but her made up claims about being under direct fire in Bosnia and had to run for cover "with our heads down" got nearly all the attention[1]. It again appeared in Bill Clinton's autobiography in 2004.

                      Moreover, it was a "favorite story" back prior to her meeting with Edmund Hilary. One that got told several times when her husband ran for president in '92 and one she would regale folks with back in Little Rock, Arkansas when Bill was still governor. But even after it was exposed and walked back it still would surface from time to time.

                      And Snopes looked into the angle that her mother might have heard about Edmund prior to that since he had made the news, but could find no indication such stories ever appeared in papers that she would have had access to. And the fact that her spokesman ended up dismissing the claim as nothing more than "a sweet family story her mother shared to inspire greatness in her daughter, to great results I might add" drives a stake through any attempts to turn this pile of bovine scat into the truth (or is this more of the left's "choos[ing] truth over facts"?).




                      1. subsequent film footage shows her completely safe and that only time she bent her head down was to kiss a young Muslim girl who had read a poem in her honor.
                      This reminds me of Warren's claim to have Indian descent.

                      And my question is the same: how many of us research all the stories told us by our parents about our heritage to make sure they are 100% true?

                      I'm not going to fault anyone for telling a story or two told them by their parents from when they could first speak that isn't 100% factual - unless they insist on repeating it once it is absolutely clear they know the story doesn't hold up.
                      Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                        Didn't all men wear hats until handsome King John of Camelot changed fashion trends in the early '60s?
                        You can look at films from the 40s and 50s and while most men wore a hat, many didn't. Not like this video from 1911 where I think I spotted two maybe three men without a hat on. Even a number of young boys wore hats!

                        And this brings up another question... where are all the wimmenfolk?

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          If you want to see something interesting colorized, someone took some old films from the streets of NYC from 1911. I think they added sound because even Hollywood couldn't make talkies in 1911. But on occasion you'll see parts of someone's clothes change from blue to brown.

                          One question arises out of watching this though. Was it a law that you had to wear a hat back then?
                          There are several of these on Youtube now. This particular person who colorizes tends to have some "bleeding" (as you noted) where people and objects suddenly have a rust color. There are others with better results. I like the way they are slowed down to normal speed, stabilized, and cleaned up of defects. In fact, there is one film from 1903(?) where someone investigated and found out who was in the street-scene film by researching the license plate on a car.

                          This one is supposed to be the inspiration for the Marilyn Monroe photo. Eh, I don't know about that.



                          ETA
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyL6wWOHxUM
                          The car where the people were identified. From 1911
                          Last edited by Ronson; 05-05-2021, 08:23 AM.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                            This reminds me of Warren's claim to have Indian descent.

                            And my question is the same: how many of us research all the stories told us by our parents about our heritage to make sure they are 100% true?

                            I'm not going to fault anyone for telling a story or two told them by their parents from when they could first speak that isn't 100% factual - unless they insist on repeating it once it is absolutely clear they know the story doesn't hold up.
                            The problem with Hillary and Warren was that they continue telling their tales even after they get debunked. That is where the problem lies.

                            And with Hillary, who was proclaimed "the smartest woman in America" when Bill was POTUS, you would think at some point basic math would have come into play.

                            And with Warren, aside from lying about never using her "minority status" to advance herself, she also plagiarized some recipes and passed them off as old family recipes reflecting her supposed Native American heritage.

                            Those are what changes family stories into deliberate lies.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                              This reminds me of Warren's claim to have Indian descent.

                              And my question is the same: how many of us research all the stories told us by our parents about our heritage to make sure they are 100% true?

                              I'm not going to fault anyone for telling a story or two told them by their parents from when they could first speak that isn't 100% factual - unless they insist on repeating it once it is absolutely clear they know the story doesn't hold up.
                              I recall Warren claiming the test she took "proved" she was right, even though everyone acknowledged it proved otherwise, and continued to badger Trump for not honoring his bet when it was "proved," according to her, she was right.
                              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by seanD View Post

                                I recall Warren claiming the test she took "proved" she was right, even though everyone acknowledged it proved otherwise, and continued to badger Trump for not honoring his bet when it was "proved," according to her, she was right.
                                Yup. All the initial headlines parroted her declaration that the tests validated her claim until folks started looking at the actual test results which showed that she is in fact a good deal "whiter" than the average American of European descent, and that the tiny percent of Native American heritage (1/1024%) was just as likely Hispanic as it was Native American.



                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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