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Trump and QAnon gang remain the most influential power

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  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

    No facts present to support this trashy post. Still waiting . . .
    So, you make a stupid comment, then add "still waiting..."

    Let's get back to the fact that you're just as wrapped up in left wing conspiracy theories as you accuse the right.

    What else do you believe - because of dumb youtube videos - that's not actually fact?

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    THIS^^^^^ I've actually talked to several different, quite serious QAnon people who did not like Trump and actually placed him as part of that satanic cabal of pedophiles, etc..
    So what?!?!?!? By far the majority of the support for QAnon is within the Republican Party, and Trump supports the most popular candidates that support QAnon.

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Here's a clue -- look at the guy who started a thread about conspiracy theories on the right who was TOTALLY taken in by a conspiracy theory on the left -- the Great Bludgeoning Lie.

    And that ain't no gaslighting -- it's fact, Jact!
    No facts present to support this trashy post. Still waiting . . .

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

    All QAnon proves is that there are plenty of nuts and conspiracists in the world.
    Not concerned at all with the world. The issue is Trump and many in the Republican Party that support.

    You may highlight one faction of them for your political advantage, but they are all over the place, and all over the political map, and they believe all sorts of nonsense.
    No they are not all over the place in the political map. They are in the Republican Party as documented.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    Yes it is. BlueAnon does not represent any real conspiracy theory or theories.
    False. It is similar to Blue Lives Matter, which was a reaction to the BLM narrative. This is just something that exists now as a reaction to the rabid QAnon hysteria by the left and their own conspiracy theories and adherents. It happens all the time.

    It does however draw from a certain mockery of actual US intelligence that indicated certain WS and Neo-Nazi groups still had designs on attacking the Capitol. Actionable intelligence from our Intelligence agencies does not equal 'a conspiracy theory'. At least not for me.
    It was internet speculation at best. There were no arrests made for these "threats" and no intelligence was actually acted upon.


    Did you see me denying there are conspiracy theories that people on the left buy into? Can you find text where I have said that? The only thing I have said is that BlueAnon is not actually such a theory.
    It's a reactive label used for those very conspiracies you just admitted to. *mic drop*

    There is plenty of crazy to go around. And I'll be glad to call out crazy on the left just as vigorously as crazy on the right where it exists and comes into play here. (One problem here is that the crazy from the right tends to dominate, so that is mostly what I have opportunity to try to correct)
    That's completely false Jim. The only reason the "crazy on the right" dominates is because that is what the media found works to distract from their own crazy side.

    Here is a clue BTC: Look at which people are using ad hominem and personal insult, and which people are just putting up data and trying to change minds without lacing every post with a personal or derogatory attack.
    I've not used a single ad hominem attack in this thread. And I haven't responded to you in months, so your pointing it out to me is completely improper when responding to me. Pointing out your lack of objectivity on all matters Trump isn't ad hominem.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronson
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    Perhaps this will help you:

    Let's suppose that a child believes in Santa Clause. And let's suppose we secretly agree with their dad that the dad will make a decision about whether to dress up as Santa when he puts the presents under the tree, but that the dad is not to tell us what he did. And further, let's suppose that we convince the child to wait up at night to see if Santa comes - and we promise the child $100 if they see Santa.

    Now, let's suppose we interview the child on Christmas day (after a good nap). Now what can we learn if the child says he saw Santa? What are the likely possibilities?

    1) the child saw his dad in the Santa suit
    2) the child did not see his dad in the Santa suit but is lying because they want the $100.

    So if the child says they saw Santa, (1) what do we know about what the child's honesty? basically nothing because we don't know what dad chose to do and (2) what do we know about what the dad actually chose to do? basically nothing because the kids answer is likely to be "he saw Santa" either way.

    But suppose the child says he saw DAD putting presents under the tree?

    Now what do we know (1) we know the kid is quite honest, he's willing to give up $100 for the truth and (2) we know that most likely dad chose NOT to dress as Santa.

    So, there is one answer we can believe is true IF it is given. But it is the only answer we can believe is true if it is given. Not a no-win situation, simple logical analysis.
    You're losing it. You have so many assumptions built into your theory that it's going to meltdown.

    Leave a comment:


  • seanD
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    The issue is not QAnon per se. We've had moon landing deniers, holocaust deniers, the illuminatti, 911 conspiracists, JFK shooting conspiracists etc etc etc

    The issue is the widespread adoption of QAnon by a large contingent of GOP members, usually stanch Trump supporters, his refusal to speak against the conspiracy itself and call it what it is, and their close association with not just members of the GOP, but elected officials in the GOP. QAnon is not just nuttery, it's on the fast track to becoming institutionalized nuttery and it is gaining access to real power.
    This is paranoia hogwash. Polls show the support for Qanon has significantly plummeted since January. Blueanon is far more of a threat than Qanon ever was even during Qanon's height because Blueanon has always had the backing of the MSM, which perpetuates the lies and delusion on a much grander scale. Qanon never had that backing by the MSM, ever. Even REAL conspiracies that undoubtedly overlapped with Qanon, such as the Epstein/Clinton conspiracy connection, never was given the same sensational attention as the number of fake Blueanon conspiracies by the MSM like Jessie Smollet or the Russian bounty stories.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

    I'm sorry, but that's pretty funny. If they conclude what you already believe, then they are probably "honest." If they conclude anything different, then they are probably dishonest. Boy, talk about a no-win situation.
    Perhaps this will help you:

    Let's suppose that a child believes in Santa Clause. And let's suppose we secretly agree with their dad that the dad will make a decision about whether to dress up as Santa when he puts the presents under the tree, but that the dad is not to tell us what he did. And further, let's suppose that we convince the child to wait up at night to see if Santa comes - and we promise the child $100 if they see Santa.

    Now, let's suppose we interview the child on Christmas day (after a good nap). Now what can we learn if the child says he saw Santa? What are the likely possibilities?

    1) the child saw his dad in the Santa suit
    2) the child did not see his dad in the Santa suit but is lying because they want the $100.

    So if the child says they saw Santa, (1) what do we know about what the child's honesty? basically nothing because we don't know what dad chose to do and (2) what do we know about what the dad actually chose to do? basically nothing because the kids answer is likely to be "he saw Santa" either way.

    But suppose the child says he saw DAD putting presents under the tree?

    Now what do we know (1) we know the kid is quite honest, he's willing to give up $100 for the truth and (2) we know that most likely dad chose NOT to dress as Santa.

    So, there is one answer we can believe is true IF it is given. But it is the only answer we can believe is true if it is given. Not a no-win situation, simple logical analysis.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronson
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    No - QAnon is a collection of conspiracy theories advocated by 'the Q' who was supposed to be some sort of actual intelligence official deep in some US intelligence agency who was 'leaking' this data out to the public 'for the common good'. And we have a pretty good idea who this 'Q' is (and it isn't some deep mole in US intelligence), but it really doesn't matter, his followers will believe in 'him' regardless of what reality proves to be - as can be seen by the numbers of QAnon followers that still think Trump will be 'restored to power'.

    Indeed.

    First - a person of faith can't equate religious belief about God with the sort of thing QAnon represents. If there is truly no difference (and of course there is), then NONE of us should be believers.

    Second - That isolated members of the public can be swayed by such things in a somewhat non-commital way is a problem, but it's impact is usually somewhat limited. It is a much greater problem when people who publicly and strongly believe conspiracy theories that can't be supported by hard evidence are elected, regardless of the religious persuasion or formal education. They become a danger to themselves and the country, and it means a very large group of people have also been persuaded by that conspiracy theory or are - at best - simply ignorant of the danger such a person poses to our country.

    I hope so. But regardless, they will perpetuate the lie that Trump 'really won', and that will have consequences for many elections to come. Why you don't understand how dangerous that is to our republic is baffling to me.
    Our only real hope in the Arizona case is that the QAnon believer orchestrating it and the people running it have some honest bones in them and have the capacity to do what the Georgia Republican Election officials did and conclude there was not fraud sufficient to alter the result.

    Now - before you go nuts saying "but what if there really was fraud", you need to understand that there is NOTHING about the group doing this audit that is believable. Nothing they say has any validity at all when if comes to giving us more knowledge about the Arizona election. If they say there was fraud, or if they say there was not, doesn't matter wrt what actually happened in Arizona during the 2020 election.
    Just FYI, I read all of the above and generally disagree with much of it, but it's not important enough to bludgeon back-and-forth here.

    However, if they were to say there was no fraud, then what we would know (and the only thing we would know) is that they are probably honest people ...
    I'm sorry, but that's pretty funny. If they conclude what you already believe, then they are probably "honest." If they conclude anything different, then they are probably dishonest. Boy, talk about a no-win situation.

    because that is not what they expected to find. And it might, just maybe, start to put an end to Trump's 'Big Lie' about the election (probably just wishful thinking).
    All I am going to say in conclusion (which I've said many times before on this board) is that I witnessed irregularities. Some glaring irregularities - like nothing I have ever seen before, and which the most probable conclusion is vote tampering. I doubt it was enough to affect the outcome and it wouldn't matter anyway, because is a done deal. I only want to see some changes in election integrity and monitoring going forward.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

    I beg to differ. Just the fact that you added they also "tend to adhere" proves it. It is a collection of beliefs placed under one unbrella. I've known two people who said they tought QAnon had merit, and one of them despised Trump. So go figure.
    No - QAnon is a collection of conspiracy theories advocated by 'the Q' who was supposed to be some sort of actual intelligence official deep in some US intelligence agency who was 'leaking' this data out to the public 'for the common good'. And we have a pretty good idea who this 'Q' is (and it isn't some deep mole in US intelligence), but it really doesn't matter, his followers will believe in 'him' regardless of what reality proves to be - as can be seen by the numbers of QAnon followers that still think Trump will be 'restored to power'.


    No, I just think we rely on different sources.
    Indeed.


    Do you think it is dangerous when Muslims or Mormons are elected? How about atheists or Christians? People have all sorts of unprovable beliefs that haven't become "dangerous." My father said he was positively paranoid when JFK was elected because he believed the pope would start running the country.
    First - a person of faith can't equate religious belief about God with the sort of thing QAnon represents. If there is truly no difference (and of course there is), then NONE of us should be believers.

    Second - That isolated members of the public can be swayed by such things in a somewhat non-commital way is a problem, but it's impact is usually somewhat limited. It is a much greater problem when people who publicly and strongly believe conspiracy theories that can't be supported by hard evidence are elected, regardless of the religious persuasion or formal education. They become a danger to themselves and the country, and it means a very large group of people have also been persuaded by that conspiracy theory or are - at best - simply ignorant of the danger such a person poses to our country.



    Two things. 1) they will never dig up enough votes to change the election outcome. 2) Even if they did, what's done is done. There's no chance of a redo.
    I hope so. But regardless, they will perpetuate the lie that Trump 'really won', and that will have consequences for many elections to come. Why you don't understand how dangerous that is to our republic is baffling to me.
    Our only real hope in the Arizona case is that the QAnon believer orchestrating it and the people running it have some honest bones in them and have the capacity to do what the Georgia Republican Election officials did and conclude there was not fraud sufficient to alter the result.

    Now - before you go nuts saying "but what if there really was fraud", you need to understand that there is NOTHING about the group doing this audit that is believable. Nothing they say has any validity at all when if comes to giving us more knowledge about the Arizona election. If they say there was fraud, or if they say there was not, doesn't matter wrt what actually happened in Arizona during the 2020 election.

    However, if they were to say there was no fraud, then what we would know (and the only thing we would know) is that they are probably honest people, because that is not what they expected to find. And it might, just maybe, start to put an end to Trump's 'Big Lie' about the election (probably just wishful thinking).
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-03-2021, 03:03 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Here's a clue -- look at the guy who started a thread about conspiracy theories on the right who was TOTALLY taken in by a conspiracy theory on the left -- the Great Bludgeoning Lie.

    And that ain't no gaslighting -- it's fact, Jact!

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Urban Dictionary: Blue Anon

    Blue Anon

    The definition of "Blue Anon" is "a loosely organized network of Democrat voters, politicians and media personalities who spread left-wing conspiracy theories."
    "Blue Anon adherents fervently believe that right-wing extremists are going to storm Capitol Hill any day now and "remove" lawmakers from office, hence the need for the deployment of thousands of National Guard stationed at the US Capitol."
    Which is, perhaps, why Shuny was totally reeled in by the great "bludgeoning" lie?

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

    Not true at all.
    Yes it is. BlueAnon does not represent any real conspiracy theory or theories. It does however draw from a certain mockery of actual US intelligence that indicated certain WS and Neo-Nazi groups still had designs on attacking the Capitol. Actionable intelligence from our Intelligence agencies does not equal 'a conspiracy theory'. At least not for me.

    Or are you denying that there are conspiracy theories originating from the political left?
    Did you see me denying there are conspiracy theories that people on the left buy into? Can you find text where I have said that? The only thing I have said is that BlueAnon is not actually such a theory. There is plenty of crazy to go around. And I'll be glad to call out crazy on the left just as vigorously as crazy on the right where it exists and comes into play here. (One problem here is that the crazy from the right tends to dominate, so that is mostly what I have opportunity to try to correct)



    I want you to FINALLY come to the realization that you are neither objective or impartial in any discussion that involves Donald Trump or anything that has been attached to him. Until you can admit to that, then it's YOU who isn't interested in rational discourse.
    Here is a clue BTC: Look at which people are using ad hominem and personal insult, and which people are just putting up data and trying to change minds without lacing every post with a personal or derogatory attack.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronson
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    THIS^^^^^ I've actually talked to several different, quite serious QAnon people who did not like Trump and actually placed him as part of that satanic cabal of pedophiles, etc..
    Which makes sense if one buys into the conspiracy. The way I hear it, it was all connected somehow to Epstein. And since Trump (at one time, anyway) hung with Epstein, then one would think he was involved.

    I forgot to add my brother to this conspiracy group. He started babbling about it a couple months ago, about how billionaires connected with government, were kidnapping and killing children. I cut him off. Sad how deranged he's gotten in his old age.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

    I beg to differ. Just the fact that you added they also "tend to adhere" proves it. It is a collection of beliefs placed under one unbrella. I've known two people who said they tought QAnon had merit, and one of them despised Trump. So go figure.
    .
    THIS^^^^^ I've actually talked to several different, quite serious QAnon people who did not like Trump and actually placed him as part of that satanic cabal of pedophiles, etc..

    Leave a comment:

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