Originally posted by MaxVel
View Post
Perhaps you ought to consider just how things got to that place. As an outside observer, it's not all on one side - people got (and are still) that upset because of a whole host of things that have made them lose trust in various institutions. Something as seemingly trivial as the fish feeding 'scandal' (repeated mutliple times over different issues since then) made many lose trust in the media. Then you've got dangerous demagogues like Maxine Waters et al, et al, allowed to run around inciting violence; Democrat politicians paying bail for rioters, etc etc. Dubious court decisions and dodgy jurors; social media trying to control the narrative to support their political views (a sitting President banned from Twitter and no-one thinks that's dangerous or going to make his supporters more extreme??). People being told to just shut up about their doubts and questions, much much more
It's far from all one one side making things more heated and more divisive. You have such an obsession with all things Trump that you either don't see, or ignore and excuse the other side of the problem.
As I said years ago, Trump is more of a symptom of problems than a cause of problems. And AFAICT none of the underlying issues that led to trump being elected by the conservative base have been addressed in any significant way. Instead, they've had four years+ of being demonised, ignored, talked over, and told to shut up. No real attempt by the other side of the political aisle to understand their thinking, culture, or values. Sorry to say Ox, but you haven't yet made real progress in doing that either.
So there's a large group of Americans out there who are being marginalised and pushed to be more extreme. The Democrats are operating on a 'winner takes all' approach, which means the losers are going to get more disenchanted with the system, more desperate, and more extreme. Since 'Trump didn't get it done' - that is, deal with some of the real entrenched corruption in the system, and push back or slow down some of the radical social change that people don't want, people are going to look for someone or some approach that does. And that person or that approach is going to make a second term of Trump look like a far better choice.
Take an issue like LGBT rights. It's a significant social change. People who don't agree (for whatever reasons), or who feel it's going too far, aren't listened to, or addressed with sober discussion and counter-argument that could change their mind. They're screamed at, deplatformed, demonised and so on. Change is pushed even harder and faster in response to any opposition. That sends the message that 'We're going to do what we want, no matter what you think or feel. We have decided what's best for society, and if you want to question, consider, or push back, then you're not part of society anymore. You're evil.' And then liberals act surprised when people don't trust them, don't believe them, and don't want to support any of the institutions they use to push their agendas. It's anti-democratic and divisive. It doesn't try to persuade people to freely change their views, it coerces them.
Ox, you've done this kind of thing here on TWeb. Remember the Arbery thread? You refused to discuss possibilities reasonably with people who (certainly on my part) just wanted to dig down and get all the facts of the matter. You jumped in early on implying people were racist for merely wanting to know more about what actually happened, and finished with accusing fellow Christians of speaking on behalf of demons. You left no possibility for someone to come to a free choice of their own that Arbery was the victim of a racist attack. No wonder people didn't. Let's say that your view on that topic was correct. You successfully alienated people who you might have been able to persuade, and made yourself that much less credible on future topics.
If you find the current state of American political life scary (and I think you should) please consider your part in it.
Leave a comment: