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  • In other news...

    Texas Democrat Resigns after Calling Tim Scott an ‘Oreo’
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

      It seems awfully convenient that he just ignores the often cited "internalized racism" that is supposed to be so prevalent these days as a possibility as to how a black person insulting black person could be the result of racism.
      The assignment of motive is quite over the top - and wrong. My unsurety of whether it was racism was real (though I am convinced at this point that is the proper name for it). And my concerns over how hostile any attempt to interact in the thread would be are also real, as anyone reading the last few pages can see.



      He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

      "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        In other words, you excused racism.
        Point me to the text where I excused using the term "uncle Tim or Uncle Tom". I never excused it. I said it was bad, wrong.


        Oh, but I do like how you softened it to mere "insults" as if someone told him his haircut was stupid. No, calling him "Uncle Tim" is clearly a racist remark intended to belittle someone with black skin.
        'Softened'. Hardly.

        Here is an interesting article by a black man on the term "Uncle Tom". I think it captures my thinking on it.

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...f9d_story.html

        He calls it an insult as well. But just because it is an insult doesn't mean it is not racist or that it is not inappropriate or cruel. It just means that insult is a proper designation for the term. Nothing 'soft' about it.
        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

          The assignment of motive is quite over the top - and wrong. My unsurety of whether it was racism was real (though I am convinced at this point that is the proper name for it). And my concerns over how hostile any attempt to interact in the thread would be are also real, as anyone reading the last few pages can see.


          I didn't technically ascribe a motive to you at all, just noticed that this kind of reaction seems a bit too convenient, but somehow what I said was "over the top - and wrong". That's really the stance you want to take? This effectively leaves no room for disagreement with you, or even any suspicion of any kind when it comes to your posts.

          If you were consistent in the way you applied your logic it wouldn't have taken anywhere near this long for you to come to the conclusion that the statements in the OP were racist. In fact, with the intense focus you have on racism and how bad it is, it should have been more obvious to you if you really understood what racism is and how it manifests.

          One of your first posts was a self fulfilling prophecy. You have very often gone into a thread, say how horrible everyone who disagrees with you is, often long before anyone has even said anything remotely resembling the horrible things you ascribe to them. Then when they actually give any level of disagreement or pushback* against your claims it is suddenly proving you "right" about how terrible they are. You have done this over, and over, and over. Then when called out on your own pattern of behavior you say people are "gaslighting" you about what happened. In the past you've even denied this pattern of behavior even exists, which is gaslighting.

          *Even when said pushback is mild, or even completely civil. Not to say all of the disagreement has been mild or civil, but that you take even such mild posts as if they are extremely harsh.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

            Point me to the text where I excused using the term "uncle Tim or Uncle Tom". I never excused it. I said it was bad, wrong.



            'Softened'. Hardly.

            Here is an interesting article by a black man on the term "Uncle Tom". I think it captures my thinking on it.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...f9d_story.html

            He calls it an insult as well. But just because it is an insult doesn't mean it is not racist or that it is not inappropriate or cruel. It just means that insult is a proper designation for the term. Nothing 'soft' about it.
            Please, ox, the opening post made reference to the "Uncle Tim" slur directed at Tim Scott. When you finally condescended to grace this thread with your presence, you first dismissed it as mere "insults from a black person to a black person" and then said it's not "a useful or appropriate thing to say". That's hardly a condemnation. Telling your wife, "No, that dress doesn't make your butt look big, your butt makes that dress look big," would fall under the category of "not useful or appropriate". Calling a black person a variation of "Uncle Tom" is not merely "not appropriate or useful" but is overtly racist and should be unequivocally condemned as such. One can only wonder why it is so hard to for you to simply do so.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              Please, ox, the opening post made reference to the "Uncle Tim" slur directed at Tim Scott. When you finally condescended to grace this thread with your presence, you first dismissed it as mere "insults from a black person to a black person" and then said it's not "a useful or appropriate thing to say". That's hardly a condemnation. Telling your wife, "No, that dress doesn't make your butt look big, your butt makes that dress look big," would fall under the category of "not useful or appropriate". Calling a black person a variation of "Uncle Tom" is not merely "not appropriate or useful" but is overtly racist and should be unequivocally condemned as such. One can only wonder why it is so hard to for you to simply do so.
              There is no point in continuing this with you MM. When and if you ever decide to get off your irrational need to denigrate me in each post you write, we can talk again.
              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                There is no point in continuing this with you MM. When and if you ever decide to get off your irrational need to denigrate me in each post you write, we can talk again.
                As Teal pointed out earlier, all you have to do to win this round is unequivocally condemn that which is clearly racist, but you'd rather makes excuses. Only you know why.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                  I didn't technically ascribe a motive to you at all, just noticed that this kind of reaction seems a bit too convenient, but somehow what I said was "over the top - and wrong". That's really the stance you want to take? This effectively leaves no room for disagreement with you, or even any suspicion of any kind when it comes to your posts.
                  Please at least be honest. 'How convenient as you used it always calls motive or truthfulness into question.. perhaps that was not your specific intent, but that IS what that phrase means.

                  and yes, such a reply is 'over the top and wrong. You are not merely disagreeing with my opinion, you are saying i am not being honest or truthful about my thoughts and motivations as they relate to this thread.

                  If you were consistent in the way you applied your logic it wouldn't have taken anywhere near this long for you to come to the conclusion that the statements in the OP were racist. In fact, with the intense focus you have on racism and how bad it is, it should have been more obvious to you if you really understood what racism is and how it manifests.
                  As I said, there was more than one reason I avoided this thread.. again " if I was consistent is demeaning. You are finding fault and judging me rather than just accepting my stated reasons as simple fact. I have a right to chose to avoid being judged and condemned by those such as you, or MM do I not? Would you enter into a conversation with people that would make the sorts of derogatory comments about you that have been made about me so far in this thread from multiple sources no less? Would you even ever speak to them again?

                  One of your first posts was a self fulfilling prophecy. You have very often gone into a thread, say how horrible everyone who disagrees with you is, often long before anyone has even said anything remotely resembling the horrible things you ascribe to them. Then when they actually give any level of disagreement or pushback* against your claims it is suddenly proving you "right" about how terrible they are. You have done this over, and over, and over. Then when called out on your own pattern of behavior you say people are "gaslighting" you about what happened. In the past you've even denied this pattern of behavior even exists, which is gaslighting.
                  I've never said anyone was horrible for disagreeing with me. But I have pointed out many times that ad hominem and attacks on the person rather than the idea are wrong.

                  let's assume you were in a thread where several people didn't like your point of view, but instead of telling you what they thought was wrong with your point of view, they where going on and on post aflter post about what they thought was wrong with YOU. How would you react?



                  He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                  "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                    Please at least be honest. 'How convenient as you used it always calls motive or truthfulness into question.. perhaps that was not your specific intent, but that IS what that phrase means.

                    and yes, such a reply is 'over the top and wrong. You are not merely disagreeing with my opinion, you are saying i am not being honest or truthful about my thoughts and motivations as they relate to this thread.
                    So, yet again you are fine with impugning the motives of others, yet if someone does that to you it is off limits "over the top - and wrong". Also, I am being honest despite your insinuation I am lying. I said it seems "convenient", not "how convenient" there is a difference. Seems convenient means it looks very fishy when suddenly the the very kind of logic you and those on your side champion when it comes to skewering political opponents suddenly doesn't register when you find out someone on your side is doing it. You would be having a fit if Republicans were doing this, and lecturing everyone here on how and why it is incredibly racist. If anyone said anything remotely like what you have in this very thread they would be deemed as supporters of racists, and as "speaking the words of demons".

                    Even if your stated reasons are 100% true that doesn't make it look any less suspicious. Can you appreciate the fact something can look suspicious even if nothing wrong was actually transpiring? I added the word "seems" for a reason.

                    As I said, there was more than one reason I avoided this thread.. again " if I was consistent is demeaning. You are finding fault and judging me rather than just accepting my stated reasons as simple fact. I have a right to chose to avoid being judged and condemned by those such as you, or MM do I not? Would you enter into a conversation with people that would make the sorts of derogatory comments about you that have been made about me so far in this thread from multiple sources no less? Would you even ever speak to them again?
                    No one is consistent 100% of the time, that's just the nature of humanity. In my opinion it is best to find out where we are being inconsistent so we can work on it. That's how I view things. Apparently you do not see it that way. I'll ask this, how should I point out that your statements in the past don't match up with your current behavior despite there not being a change of belief? Because really, someone calling a black person a variation of an "Uncle Tom" is overtly racist, and is not dissimilar to calling a black person an "Oreo".

                    I'm speaking to you aren't I? You've attacked my honest and integrity in this very thread. You've assigned motives to me, which you claim is something that should be out of bounds. This is also far from the only time you've done this.

                    If that was really your intent you shouldn't have even posted in this thread at all. If you are correct in your pronouncements about those on this site then literally nothing you can say or do will ever change their minds, and they will be harsh to you regardless. You'd have to be masochistic to believe what you do about the people on this site, and yet repeatedly come here to poke the hornet's nest.

                    I've never said anyone was horrible for disagreeing with me. But I have pointed out many times that ad hominem and attacks on the person rather than the idea are wrong.
                    The clear implication of your earlier post was that everyone here was so terrible that even so much as a simple answer to CivilDiscourse's question would result in a "feeding frenzy" with you as the target. You also assume many things are "ad hominem" attacks even when they are mere disagreement.

                    let's assume you were in a thread where several people didn't like your point of view, but instead of telling you what they thought was wrong with your point of view, they where going on and on post aflter post about what they thought was wrong with YOU. How would you react?
                    I would probably leave or reduce my interaction to not much if at all. I've done this in multiple venues where I've been consistently attacked by the majority. Here are some of the actual complaints made against me(one is very weird IMO) "you're heartless", "you're being too objective"(told you it was weird), "you're boring" , and many more. All of these for the crime of not liking a video game that came out last year and for giving as detailed reasons as I could for as to why I didn't like it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                      I would probably leave or reduce my interaction to not much if at all. I've done this in multiple venues where I've been consistently attacked by the majority. Here are some of the actual complaints made against me(one is very weird IMO) "you're heartless", "you're being too objective"(told you it was weird), "you're boring" , and many more. All of these for the crime of not liking a video game that came out last year and for giving as detailed reasons as I could for as to why I didn't like it.
                      Those seem pretty tame to me compared to what I get here. But there you go - and maybe I should just leave as well. It's clear there is no chance the majority will not let go of whatever grudge or anger there is that drives it. So I just need to decide if the opportunity to have meaningful discussions sometimes is worth the cost of being dragged through the mud most of the time.
                      He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                      "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                        Those seem pretty tame to me compared to what I get here. But there you go - and maybe I should just leave as well. It's clear there is no chance the majority will not let go of whatever grudge or anger there is that drives it. So I just need to decide if the opportunity to have meaningful discussions sometimes is worth the cost of being dragged through the mud most of the time.
                        Perhaps its worth asking yourself why you attracted such negative attention over the last 4 years to yourself with your own vitriol. As I pointed out, you are still putting that vitriol out even as recently as Shuny's thread from a couple of days ago.

                        It's like how H_A trolls, and brings negative attention to herself, then wonders why everyone has issues with her.

                        If you want to leave because you created a situation where people view you negatively, while you haven't yet put in the work to change that situation, that is your choice. But, be aware that negative view didn't come out of nowhere, and repairing that reputation is going to take more than words in a single thread while you still do the same elsewhere.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                          Those seem pretty tame to me compared to what I get here. But there you go - and maybe I should just leave as well. It's clear there is no chance the majority will not let go of whatever grudge or anger there is that drives it. So I just need to decide if the opportunity to have meaningful discussions sometimes is worth the cost of being dragged through the mud most of the time.
                          I only put the TWeb friendly of the hostile interactions up here. If I put the worst stuff I got up here in their full "glory" I'd be getting infraction points.

                          Regardless of which one of is right in this particular exchange, it appears to me that being on here is causing you anxiety. It really may be best to just not interact here. or at the very least take regular breaks.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            You'd have to be masochistic to believe what you do about the people on this site, and yet repeatedly come here to poke the hornet's nest.
                            More commonly known as a martyr complex.

                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • MC_Tim_Scott_web20210505123658.jpg
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                                Perhaps its worth asking yourself why you attracted such negative attention over the last 4 years to yourself with your own vitriol. As I pointed out, you are still putting that vitriol out even as recently as Shuny's thread from a couple of days ago.

                                It's like how H_A trolls, and brings negative attention to herself, then wonders why everyone has issues with her.

                                If you want to leave because you created a situation where people view you negatively, while you haven't yet put in the work to change that situation, that is your choice. But, be aware that negative view didn't come out of nowhere, and repairing that reputation is going to take more than words in a single thread while you still do the same elsewhere.
                                I find it odd you would be continuing this line. Your recent example of referring to QAnon as 'nutters' is hardly 'vitriol by any standard I know of, though it certainly is not gracious either. And I know norrinradd used the term in the OP of his most recent thread and no one seemed to care. Consider:

                                I am not currently interacting with less direct hostility with others than many, even most here. Just take a careful look at how starlight or Shunya have been treated the last few days. Yet here you and others are, pages of criticism based on past actions while ignoring and excusing current posts by others at least as hostile as some of my posts from my past. And of course, nary an apology from any of them, yet three from me to those I've offended in the last few pages alone.

                                Its a huge double standard based on grudges held for years that will not forgive past poor behavior even in light of multiple apologies and demonstrated change.
                                He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                                "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                                Comment

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