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I always enjoyed James Carville, even when I didn't agree with him.
Carville Hits Back At "Woke" Politics:
Carville Hits Back At "Woke" Politics:
CNN host Chris Cuomo grills James Carville about his take on "woke... faculty-lounge politics," digging down to Carville's basic analysis that the Democratic Party's "urban strategists" are making a mistake when they "start out by attacking all White people."
"It's just faculty lounge jargon," he repeated. "It gives the aura of cosmopolitan smugness."
"I don't think it can get any dumber than that," Carville said. "I would say this, that somewhere around 68 percent, or probably 69 percent of the people that are going to vote in the next election is going to be White. So, I think it's utterly stupid, to attack 70 percent of the country, when you're trying to get a majority."
"It's just faculty lounge jargon," he repeated. "It gives the aura of cosmopolitan smugness."
"I don't think it can get any dumber than that," Carville said. "I would say this, that somewhere around 68 percent, or probably 69 percent of the people that are going to vote in the next election is going to be White. So, I think it's utterly stupid, to attack 70 percent of the country, when you're trying to get a majority."
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN: So James, it'll be a good test of your political currency, to see how you deal with the beating, coming your way, for messing with wokeness.
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, CO-HOST, "POLITICS WAR ROOM" PODCAST: Well, thank you for the kind words, Chris. Unfortunately, the only thing I'm going to get cancelled by is the actuarial tables.
I think there's an issue in our messaging. And I think that I don't want to help rewrite dictionaries. I want to help rewrite laws.
And the way that we help President Biden do that is by talking about things that are relevant to people in a way that they can understand it, in a clear, distinct and certain voice. And I believe that. And I'm at a place in life where I can say it, while other people are terrified to say it.
CUOMO: Why are they terrified to say it?
CARVILLE: I don't know that they - is this brings up too much trouble. [21:30:00]
They watch people that get fired for the most trivial offenses, or retweeting a piece of academic research, or something like that. And I don't know how many hundreds of people have said "James, it's just I just can't do it. It's just not worth the grief I'm going to take."
And I sat (ph) and I've had a fortunate life in politics. And if I just don't say something about this, I'd never forgive myself.
CUOMO: Why do you think it'll hurt the Democrats if they stay the way they are?
CARVILLE: Because we're talking about something that doesn't - well it's not - didn't come in the intersection of people's lives. It's just faculty lounge jargon. And it's counterproductive.
It gives the aura of cosmopolitan smugness to the rest of the country that somehow or another we think we're smarter, and better, than other people, and we're going to lecture them, where we are, people agree with us on the issues.
They like our tax plan. They liked - they believe in - they think climate is an issue. They think that racial inequality, and inequality, as I do, is a terrible issue in American politics.
But the way that you solve that is through power. You don't solve it in a faculty lounge. You don't solve it by having arguments back and forth. You go out and you win elections. And that's what I'm trying to help my Party to do, and my President do.
CUOMO: So they'll say - so you say, "All right, so Biden got the most votes ever. But Trump got the second most ever, and that should have never happened. And the proof that you didn't get it done is the slim majority in the House and no majority in the Senate." Fair point?
CARVILLE: Well, I haven't talked to a lot of House members and senators. And they almost to a person think that "Defund the Police" and the "Open borders" talk was terribly harmful.
You don't have to do anything. Look at Starr County, look at those counties down in the Rio Grande Valley, look at Miami-Dade, to see the effect that all of this is having electorally.
We beat a world-class buffoon, I mean, I mean, world-class, historical buffoon. And we lost House seats at the time, and we came within 42,000 votes, of not winning the presidency, that we got to learn to talk to people better, and clearer, and more distinctly, about things that are relevant to their lives. And that's what I'm trying to do.
And I don't - like I say, this whole thing is, is about language. And I think the best language is the most direct simple language of people. And that's what I think we need to engage in.
CUOMO: So, the reverb is this. "No, James, we're not going to talk the language of the ignorant and
the bigoted. It is time that you speak about people, who are diverse with respect for their diversity. And that really being woke is about being decent.
And it's not OK to be disrespectful, and to talk down to people, and just because you're scared that you're White, because you're believing some BS that somebody's selling you.
We have rules about how we want people treated, and we can enforce them now, because we're not in the shadow of just a White majority anymore. This is a diverse country."
What do you say?
CARVILLE: Well I would say this, that somewhere around 68 percent, or probably 69 percent of the people that are going to vote in the next election is going to be White. So, I think it's utterly stupid, to attack 70 percent of the country, when you're trying to get a majority.
And by the way, in order to win a House majority, we have to probably - went back to redistricting, and we get clobbered, because we didn't pick up any state legislative seats.
I didn't - in just normal sorting we probably got to win by six points or seven points. So our urban strategists say, "Let's start out by attacking all White people," I don't think it can get any dumber than that. I really don't...
CUOMO: Listen, you are here because of what you know, and what you've proven campaign after campaign. And you better be smarter than me, James. I mean, that's like, that's about--
CARVILLE: Oh!
CUOMO: --as low a bar as we can get on this show. If you're not smarter than me, literally, you should never be on anywhere again.
CARVILLE: Right.
CUOMO: But here's the point. They'll say this.
CARVILLE: OK.
CUOMO: They'll say this.
"Yes, the numbers are changing in the country. And the Democratic Party in the future of this country is in the diversity. And the Right is playing to White fright. And that is a losing game over the long- term.
And we are betting on the long-term of diversity. And we believe in the gentility of our purpose. We're not out to hurt the Right. We're out to not be hurt anymore by the Right."
CARVILLE: OK, if you want to get - throw everything over the fence to win the election of 2042, then, go ahead.
I'm going to be 77 in October, all right?
And I know how much a difference, if these proposals of President Biden, I know that if they're enacted, most of it is enacted, I think it's going to make people's lives infinitely better. I think he needs to have a Democratic Congress for the last two years of his presidency.
I'm not here to argue with you about 2042. And I'm, by the way, the Democratic Party is a real party of diversity. You look at what we did in Georgia, one of the most beautiful elections I've ever been associated with. So, I don't - yes, they say that.
And another thing I would point to you, Chris, is this, 18 percent of the United States elects 52 senators. Let me repeat that. 18 percent of the United States elects 52 senators.
The Senate and the Constitution gives Whites, in particularly rural Whites, a larger say in the electorate than they actually represent. I don't like it. I wish we could change it. I would love to. But I don't see any chance of that happening, over the immediate horizon.
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, CO-HOST, "POLITICS WAR ROOM" PODCAST: Well, thank you for the kind words, Chris. Unfortunately, the only thing I'm going to get cancelled by is the actuarial tables.
I think there's an issue in our messaging. And I think that I don't want to help rewrite dictionaries. I want to help rewrite laws.
And the way that we help President Biden do that is by talking about things that are relevant to people in a way that they can understand it, in a clear, distinct and certain voice. And I believe that. And I'm at a place in life where I can say it, while other people are terrified to say it.
CUOMO: Why are they terrified to say it?
CARVILLE: I don't know that they - is this brings up too much trouble. [21:30:00]
They watch people that get fired for the most trivial offenses, or retweeting a piece of academic research, or something like that. And I don't know how many hundreds of people have said "James, it's just I just can't do it. It's just not worth the grief I'm going to take."
And I sat (ph) and I've had a fortunate life in politics. And if I just don't say something about this, I'd never forgive myself.
CUOMO: Why do you think it'll hurt the Democrats if they stay the way they are?
CARVILLE: Because we're talking about something that doesn't - well it's not - didn't come in the intersection of people's lives. It's just faculty lounge jargon. And it's counterproductive.
It gives the aura of cosmopolitan smugness to the rest of the country that somehow or another we think we're smarter, and better, than other people, and we're going to lecture them, where we are, people agree with us on the issues.
They like our tax plan. They liked - they believe in - they think climate is an issue. They think that racial inequality, and inequality, as I do, is a terrible issue in American politics.
But the way that you solve that is through power. You don't solve it in a faculty lounge. You don't solve it by having arguments back and forth. You go out and you win elections. And that's what I'm trying to help my Party to do, and my President do.
CUOMO: So they'll say - so you say, "All right, so Biden got the most votes ever. But Trump got the second most ever, and that should have never happened. And the proof that you didn't get it done is the slim majority in the House and no majority in the Senate." Fair point?
CARVILLE: Well, I haven't talked to a lot of House members and senators. And they almost to a person think that "Defund the Police" and the "Open borders" talk was terribly harmful.
You don't have to do anything. Look at Starr County, look at those counties down in the Rio Grande Valley, look at Miami-Dade, to see the effect that all of this is having electorally.
We beat a world-class buffoon, I mean, I mean, world-class, historical buffoon. And we lost House seats at the time, and we came within 42,000 votes, of not winning the presidency, that we got to learn to talk to people better, and clearer, and more distinctly, about things that are relevant to their lives. And that's what I'm trying to do.
And I don't - like I say, this whole thing is, is about language. And I think the best language is the most direct simple language of people. And that's what I think we need to engage in.
CUOMO: So, the reverb is this. "No, James, we're not going to talk the language of the ignorant and
the bigoted. It is time that you speak about people, who are diverse with respect for their diversity. And that really being woke is about being decent.
And it's not OK to be disrespectful, and to talk down to people, and just because you're scared that you're White, because you're believing some BS that somebody's selling you.
We have rules about how we want people treated, and we can enforce them now, because we're not in the shadow of just a White majority anymore. This is a diverse country."
What do you say?
CARVILLE: Well I would say this, that somewhere around 68 percent, or probably 69 percent of the people that are going to vote in the next election is going to be White. So, I think it's utterly stupid, to attack 70 percent of the country, when you're trying to get a majority.
And by the way, in order to win a House majority, we have to probably - went back to redistricting, and we get clobbered, because we didn't pick up any state legislative seats.
I didn't - in just normal sorting we probably got to win by six points or seven points. So our urban strategists say, "Let's start out by attacking all White people," I don't think it can get any dumber than that. I really don't...
CUOMO: Listen, you are here because of what you know, and what you've proven campaign after campaign. And you better be smarter than me, James. I mean, that's like, that's about--
CARVILLE: Oh!
CUOMO: --as low a bar as we can get on this show. If you're not smarter than me, literally, you should never be on anywhere again.
CARVILLE: Right.
CUOMO: But here's the point. They'll say this.
CARVILLE: OK.
CUOMO: They'll say this.
"Yes, the numbers are changing in the country. And the Democratic Party in the future of this country is in the diversity. And the Right is playing to White fright. And that is a losing game over the long- term.
And we are betting on the long-term of diversity. And we believe in the gentility of our purpose. We're not out to hurt the Right. We're out to not be hurt anymore by the Right."
CARVILLE: OK, if you want to get - throw everything over the fence to win the election of 2042, then, go ahead.
I'm going to be 77 in October, all right?
And I know how much a difference, if these proposals of President Biden, I know that if they're enacted, most of it is enacted, I think it's going to make people's lives infinitely better. I think he needs to have a Democratic Congress for the last two years of his presidency.
I'm not here to argue with you about 2042. And I'm, by the way, the Democratic Party is a real party of diversity. You look at what we did in Georgia, one of the most beautiful elections I've ever been associated with. So, I don't - yes, they say that.
And another thing I would point to you, Chris, is this, 18 percent of the United States elects 52 senators. Let me repeat that. 18 percent of the United States elects 52 senators.
The Senate and the Constitution gives Whites, in particularly rural Whites, a larger say in the electorate than they actually represent. I don't like it. I wish we could change it. I would love to. But I don't see any chance of that happening, over the immediate horizon.
You explained your joke. 
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