Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Joe Biden: ‘We the People Are the Government’
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
I wish we had another Reagan as President. Maybe we can bring him back digitally, like Max Headroom.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostDo you mean politicians? Or lobbyists? Or government workers?
Assuming you mean politicians, I had a look into the numbers. Your rate of pay for politicians is similar to ours, and is higher than many jobs but lower than senior managers would receive in any major company.
The pay rate in our countries for politicians is not high enough to make anyone 'filthy rich', and American politicians who are particularly rich (e.g. Trump, Pelosi) are rich due to other business interests not political salary (e.g. Trump gave his Presidential salary to charity, and Pelosi's congressional salary across 34 years accounts for less than 5% of her net worth). You could argue, I suppose that US politicians often engage in insider trading to line their pockets illegally, but that's not quite the same thing.
The average length of service for US congresspeople and senators is about 11 years for each. That's well short of 'for ever'.
Pelosi and Biden are good examples.
I'll grant you that's high compared to a normal job, and it's about twice the length of the average political career in my country, but I'm not sure that it's so huge that it's a problem. Yes, you have some politicians who spend their whole lives in politics, but so do we (e.g. our recently-departed deputy-leader served longer than Pelosi has). Possibly your biggest problem is age of Senators - they're just too old, and as I've said before, abolishing the Senate would be a good step towards improving the US system.
Fortunately a lot of things having to do with federal districts and federal elections are controlled at the state level, making change on those relatively straightforward.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
How do we pull that off?I am Punkinhead.
"I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"
~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI think overall the biggest mindset difference I see between people in my country and US conservatives, is that in my country people view the government as the servant of the people and controlled by the people, you guys talk as if the government is the enemy of the people and not controllable by the people.
Granted the difference could be a result of the fact that my country is far less corrupt and far more democratic than the US, but those are things that it's up to you guys to improve and fix. Obviously you as a nation are morally responsible for how you choose to let your government function and the levels of corruption and undemocraticness you guys seem prepared to tolerate.Last edited by Gondwanaland; 04-30-2021, 09:24 PM.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostImprove your democratic systems, thus giving the people more control over who their politicians are and giving the politicians less power to force their own re-elections. e.g.
1. Ban gerrymandering, to ensure that the voters are choosing the politicians rather than having politicians choose their voters.
Only way I could see around it is a computer program assigning people randomly to districts, and then you have a case of people not feeling represented by their district because it's made up of people all over the state. And also accusations of racism/bias in the computer code (yes, we've seen that claimed a lot in recent years with things like facial recognition, voice recognition, etc.).
2. Replace plurality voting with a ranked choice or proportional voting system that doesn't punish 3rd parties and cause the will of the electorate to be more accurately reflected in who is elected.
3. Ban lobbying and large campaign contributions, to prevent special interest groups whispering in the ears of politicians and gifting them enough money win by indoctrinating the voters with endless ads.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
I wish we had another Reagan as President. Maybe we can bring him back digitally, like Max Headroom.
Ronald_Reagan%27s_head.png
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIn context, within his speech, Biden criticized the autocracy of the Trump administration.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostDo you mean politicians? Or lobbyists? Or government workers?
Assuming you mean politicians, I had a look into the numbers. Your rate of pay for politicians is similar to ours, and is higher than many jobs but lower than senior managers would receive in any major company.
The pay rate in our countries for politicians is not high enough to make anyone 'filthy rich', and American politicians who are particularly rich (e.g. Trump, Pelosi) are rich due to other business interests not political salary (e.g. Trump gave his Presidential salary to charity, and Pelosi's congressional salary across 34 years accounts for less than 5% of her net worth). You could argue, I suppose that US politicians often engage in insider trading to line their pockets illegally, but that's not quite the same thing.
Originally posted by Starlight View PostThe average length of service for US congresspeople and senators is about 11 years for each. That's well short of 'for ever'.
And he isn't an anomaly. Don Young has been in the House since 1973 and Patrick "Leaky" Leahy has been in the Senate since 1975.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostFor the man who sits at his desk signing one executive order after another (while openly admitting that he has no idea what he's even signing) to be criticizing the alleged autocracy of anyone else would be risking creating something consisting of weapon's grade irony and hypocrisy
So far there is nothing about Biden that speaks of autocratic tendencies. Executive orders were extreme with the previous administrations but the most abused (imo) in the previous. That trend is a product of polarization and gridlock, and not by itself an indicator of autocratic leanings. Nor do I see any valid indication Biden himself does not know what he is doing or is not in fact functioning at a high level. IMO, those are myths invented by certain types of media pundits and outlets.Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-01-2021, 07:30 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
There is no valid comparison to be made rogue. We are dealing with the difference between past incompetence and present competence, previous strong autocratic and corrupt tendencies and current respect for the office and those that are competent at their jobs, not loyal to the man. And the speed with which the vaccines have made their way into America's arms is just one example of the extreme benefit of that change.
So far there is nothing about Biden that speaks of autocratic tendencies. Executive orders were extreme with the previous administrations but the most abused (imo) in the previous. That trend is a product of polarization and gridlock, and not by itself an indicator of autocratic leanings. Nor is there any valid indication Biden himself does not know what he is doing or is not in fact functioning at a high level. Those are myths invented by certain types of media pundits and outlets.
We 'hire' our representatives and senators to oppose bad ideas as well as support the ones we want.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
I don't know why you people think gridlock is so bad --- if you can't get a supermajority to agree on something, maybe it doesn't need to be done. If HALF of Congress wants to do something, and the other HALF does not, maybe they should focus on things on which they can agree.
We 'hire' our representatives and senators to oppose bad ideas as well as support the ones we want.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThere is no valid comparison to be made rogue. We are dealing with the difference between past incompetence and present competence
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Postprevious strong autocratic and corrupt tendencies and current respect for the office and those that are competent at their jobs, not loyal to the man.
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAnd the speed with which the vaccines have made their way into America's arms is just one example of the extreme benefit of that change.
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostSo far there is nothing about Biden that speaks of autocratic tendencies. Executive orders were extreme with the previous administrations but the most abused (imo) in the previous.
You mean old Joe's EOs that have dismantled girls and women's sports? Or the EO that caused the price of insulin and EpiPens to shoot up several fold? Or the EOs that are causing the current crisis at the border and returned putting "kids in cages"? The EO requiring that everyone wear a mask while on federal property -- something both he and his family routinely ignore? The EO that killed thousands of well paying jobs putting folks on the unemployment line and requiring the use of more polluting tankers and rail cars?
Yeah, those were horrible things that needed immediate fixing.
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThat trend is a product of polarization and gridlock, and not by itself an indicator of autocratic leanings. Nor is there any valid indication Biden himself does not know what he is doing or is not in fact functioning at a high level. Those are myths invented by certain types of media pundits and outlets.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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