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Joe Biden: ‘We the People Are the Government’

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    I've been saying all along that he's just the puppet for the left --- but this "we the people are the government" nonsense I think was his own flub - then he tried to recover from it.

    Contrast that with Reagan's view of who "we the people" refers to.

    I wish we had another Reagan as President. Maybe we can bring him back digitally, like Max Headroom.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

      I wish we had another Reagan as President. Maybe we can bring him back digitally, like Max Headroom.
      Would he have the same bad stutter?
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        Would he have the same bad stutter?
        Mr. Gorbachev, T-t-tear down that w-w-w-wall!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Do you mean politicians? Or lobbyists? Or government workers?
          The whole corrupt system in DC.

          Assuming you mean politicians, I had a look into the numbers. Your rate of pay for politicians is similar to ours, and is higher than many jobs but lower than senior managers would receive in any major company.
          Ah, you supposed that they got their filthy richness through legitimate means!

          The pay rate in our countries for politicians is not high enough to make anyone 'filthy rich', and American politicians who are particularly rich (e.g. Trump, Pelosi) are rich due to other business interests not political salary (e.g. Trump gave his Presidential salary to charity, and Pelosi's congressional salary across 34 years accounts for less than 5% of her net worth). You could argue, I suppose that US politicians often engage in insider trading to line their pockets illegally, but that's not quite the same thing.

          The average length of service for US congresspeople and senators is about 11 years for each. That's well short of 'for ever'.
          The "average" is deceptive, because there are a lot of people who serve only one or two terms -- others have been there their entire adult lives, and just won't stop.
          Pelosi and Biden are good examples.

          I'll grant you that's high compared to a normal job, and it's about twice the length of the average political career in my country, but I'm not sure that it's so huge that it's a problem. Yes, you have some politicians who spend their whole lives in politics, but so do we (e.g. our recently-departed deputy-leader served longer than Pelosi has). Possibly your biggest problem is age of Senators - they're just too old, and as I've said before, abolishing the Senate would be a good step towards improving the US system.
          Yes, sir -- on the one hand, you're focusing on "the average", but you end up agreeing that there are those who are pretty much there "forever".

          Fortunately a lot of things having to do with federal districts and federal elections are controlled at the state level, making change on those relatively straightforward.
          I wish it were as straightforward as you want to believe - money comes from all over the country (and world) to influence politics in the individual states.

          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

            Mr. Gorbachev, T-t-tear down that w-w-w-wall!
            Just remembered this:


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            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              How do we pull that off?
              I imagine we'd have to start with a massive vote of No Confidence at the state level and work the way up the federal level.
              I am Punkinhead.

              "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

              ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                I think overall the biggest mindset difference I see between people in my country and US conservatives, is that in my country people view the government as the servant of the people and controlled by the people, you guys talk as if the government is the enemy of the people and not controllable by the people.

                Granted the difference could be a result of the fact that my country is far less corrupt and far more democratic than the US, but those are things that it's up to you guys to improve and fix. Obviously you as a nation are morally responsible for how you choose to let your government function and the levels of corruption and undemocraticness you guys seem prepared to tolerate.
                Nah, more likely it's because you guys in the land of Velcro Gloves have been brainwashed into thinking the government is actually serving you and not using you, all while you jump to the beat of their drum and obey their whims. But then, to be fair, you may be right on having less corruption - it's easier to control corruption in a country the size of a pea.
                Last edited by Gondwanaland; 04-30-2021, 09:24 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  Improve your democratic systems, thus giving the people more control over who their politicians are and giving the politicians less power to force their own re-elections. e.g.

                  1. Ban gerrymandering, to ensure that the voters are choosing the politicians rather than having politicians choose their voters.
                  A nice idea, but not very plausible in action. There will always be accusations of gerrymandering, bias, etc., no matter how districts are redrawn (and in cases like this year, they HAVE to be redrawn/changed in quite a few states).

                  Only way I could see around it is a computer program assigning people randomly to districts, and then you have a case of people not feeling represented by their district because it's made up of people all over the state. And also accusations of racism/bias in the computer code (yes, we've seen that claimed a lot in recent years with things like facial recognition, voice recognition, etc.).
                  2. Replace plurality voting with a ranked choice or proportional voting system that doesn't punish 3rd parties and cause the will of the electorate to be more accurately reflected in who is elected.

                  3. Ban lobbying and large campaign contributions, to prevent special interest groups whispering in the ears of politicians and gifting them enough money win by indoctrinating the voters with endless ads.
                  Agreed on these two actually. Especially 2.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    I wish we had another Reagan as President. Maybe we can bring him back digitally, like Max Headroom.
                    Or.....
                    Ronald_Reagan%27s_head.png

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      In context, within his speech, Biden criticized the autocracy of the Trump administration.
                      For the man who sits at his desk signing one executive order after another (while openly admitting that he has no idea what he's even signing) to be criticizing the alleged autocracy of anyone else would be risking creating something consisting of weapon's grade irony and hypocrisy

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        Do you mean politicians? Or lobbyists? Or government workers?

                        Assuming you mean politicians, I had a look into the numbers. Your rate of pay for politicians is similar to ours, and is higher than many jobs but lower than senior managers would receive in any major company.

                        The pay rate in our countries for politicians is not high enough to make anyone 'filthy rich', and American politicians who are particularly rich (e.g. Trump, Pelosi) are rich due to other business interests not political salary (e.g. Trump gave his Presidential salary to charity, and Pelosi's congressional salary across 34 years accounts for less than 5% of her net worth). You could argue, I suppose that US politicians often engage in insider trading to line their pockets illegally, but that's not quite the same thing.
                        Did you come across any numbers for how many go to Washington from the upper middle class but managed to return multi-millionaires?

                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        The average length of service for US congresspeople and senators is about 11 years for each. That's well short of 'for ever'.
                        You always get a bunch of one or two term Representatives (usually someone that the voters discover they never should have elected) so they're gone in two to four years. But you also have folks like old Joe who has spent nearly 50 years in Washington.

                        And he isn't an anomaly. Don Young has been in the House since 1973 and Patrick "Leaky" Leahy has been in the Senate since 1975.





                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          For the man who sits at his desk signing one executive order after another (while openly admitting that he has no idea what he's even signing) to be criticizing the alleged autocracy of anyone else would be risking creating something consisting of weapon's grade irony and hypocrisy
                          There is no valid comparison to be made rogue. We are dealing with the difference between past incompetence and present competence, previous strong autocratic and corrupt tendencies and current respect for the office and those that are competent at their jobs, not loyal to the man. And the speed with which the vaccines have made their way into America's arms is just one example of the extreme benefit of that change.

                          So far there is nothing about Biden that speaks of autocratic tendencies. Executive orders were extreme with the previous administrations but the most abused (imo) in the previous. That trend is a product of polarization and gridlock, and not by itself an indicator of autocratic leanings. Nor do I see any valid indication Biden himself does not know what he is doing or is not in fact functioning at a high level. IMO, those are myths invented by certain types of media pundits and outlets.
                          Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-01-2021, 07:30 AM.
                          Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                            There is no valid comparison to be made rogue. We are dealing with the difference between past incompetence and present competence, previous strong autocratic and corrupt tendencies and current respect for the office and those that are competent at their jobs, not loyal to the man. And the speed with which the vaccines have made their way into America's arms is just one example of the extreme benefit of that change.

                            So far there is nothing about Biden that speaks of autocratic tendencies. Executive orders were extreme with the previous administrations but the most abused (imo) in the previous. That trend is a product of polarization and gridlock, and not by itself an indicator of autocratic leanings. Nor is there any valid indication Biden himself does not know what he is doing or is not in fact functioning at a high level. Those are myths invented by certain types of media pundits and outlets.
                            I don't know why you people think gridlock is so bad --- if you can't get a supermajority to agree on something, maybe it doesn't need to be done. If HALF of Congress wants to do something, and the other HALF does not, maybe they should focus on things on which they can agree.

                            We 'hire' our representatives and senators to oppose bad ideas as well as support the ones we want.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              I don't know why you people think gridlock is so bad --- if you can't get a supermajority to agree on something, maybe it doesn't need to be done. If HALF of Congress wants to do something, and the other HALF does not, maybe they should focus on things on which they can agree.

                              We 'hire' our representatives and senators to oppose bad ideas as well as support the ones we want.
                              People call it "gridlock". Our Founding Fathers called it "checks and balances". If elected representatives were doing their job right, then it should never be necessary to force legislation through with a slim party line majority.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                There is no valid comparison to be made rogue. We are dealing with the difference between past incompetence and present competence
                                Go on, pull the other one.

                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                previous strong autocratic and corrupt tendencies and current respect for the office and those that are competent at their jobs, not loyal to the man.
                                Are you trying to make a stuffed bird laugh?


                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                And the speed with which the vaccines have made their way into America's arms is just one example of the extreme benefit of that change.
                                It is almost like it's moving at [Operation] Warp Speed

                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                So far there is nothing about Biden that speaks of autocratic tendencies. Executive orders were extreme with the previous administrations but the most abused (imo) in the previous.
                                Good thing you put that "imo" in there.

                                You mean old Joe's EOs that have dismantled girls and women's sports? Or the EO that caused the price of insulin and EpiPens to shoot up several fold? Or the EOs that are causing the current crisis at the border and returned putting "kids in cages"? The EO requiring that everyone wear a mask while on federal property -- something both he and his family routinely ignore? The EO that killed thousands of well paying jobs putting folks on the unemployment line and requiring the use of more polluting tankers and rail cars?

                                Yeah, those were horrible things that needed immediate fixing.


                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                That trend is a product of polarization and gridlock, and not by itself an indicator of autocratic leanings. Nor is there any valid indication Biden himself does not know what he is doing or is not in fact functioning at a high level. Those are myths invented by certain types of media pundits and outlets.

                                Old Joe showing that he "know[s] what he is doing"


                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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