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The Blue Wall of Silence Is Starting to Crack

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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    You appear to going for the options stated in your posts #288 and #363

    Why? On what grounds?


    How do you propose that could be achieved?


    I really REALLY wish you were a serious debater and not just a
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      You appear to going for the options stated in your posts #288 and #363
      Not only do you ignore my answers to your questions -- you ignore answering my own questions.

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      My very first choice would be to get rid of all public sector unions.
      Public Sector unions pit interests of the dues-paying members against the tax payers who pay their salaries.

      Especially with regards to police and education.

      If the unions can't be eliminated, then SERIOUSLY rein in or eliminate collective bargaining.

      Did you take the time to Google the difference between Public and Private Sector Unions?
      Until you start acting like a decent human being, I'm going to treat you like the pitiful little you are.

      Time after time, I take the time to answer your questions, but you totally ignore them and start another round of ing.

      How bout stepping up to the plate and prove you can actually be a serious 'correspondent'?
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        Not only do you ignore my answers to your questions -- you ignore answering my own questions.



        Until you start acting like a decent human being, I'm going to treat you like the pitiful little you are.

        Time after time, I take the time to answer your questions, but you totally ignore them and start another round of ing.

        How bout stepping up to the plate and prove you can actually be a serious 'correspondent'?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          Not only do you ignore my answers to your questions -- you ignore answering my own questions.



          Until you start acting like a decent human being, I'm going to treat you like the pitiful little you are.

          Time after time, I take the time to answer your questions, but you totally ignore them and start another round of ing.

          How bout stepping up to the plate and prove you can actually be a serious 'correspondent'?
          Alas, that's how she's been for years. Elsewhere beyond this forum there was one time where she did that regularly to one poster, and then finally that poster got fed up, started just responding to small parts of her posts and ignoring the rest, and boy, was there a fit thrown over that, that her posts that she spent time writing out were being ignored. Followed by a lot of grammar/word nitpicking. And then utter silence when she was called on the hypocrisy.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            You appear to going for the options stated in your posts #288 and #363

            Why? On what grounds?

            How do you propose that could be achieved?
            You've literally not been paying attention to anything this whole thread, haven't you?

            EDIT: My bad, that was assuming too much honesty on your part which was absolutely silly of me to do. I see now from a quick look back that you deleted the next sentence he wrote in which he explained exactly why and on what grounds, and then went on to quote another statement he made after, deliberately leaving out the part of his post that answered your question.
            Last edited by Gondwanaland; 05-04-2021, 05:34 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              Not only do you ignore my answers to your questions -- you ignore answering my own questions.



              Until you start acting like a decent human being, I'm going to treat you like the pitiful little you are.

              Time after time, I take the time to answer your questions, but you totally ignore them and start another round of ing.

              How bout stepping up to the plate and prove you can actually be a serious 'correspondent'?
              Below are a few examples from this thread of what you presumably consider to be "serious" correspondence.

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              This is actually an area of my expertise - compared to some ditzy dame from across the pond who knows absolutely nothing about this but appears to enjoy argument just for the same of arument alone.
              I have received such mature and adult introductory comments from you as:
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Well, first of all, that's a steaming pile of horsie poo –

              And again:
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              What a steaming load of crap!


              Perhaps the following comment is what you consider to be dispassionate objectivity:

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              They don't represent the teaching profession - they protect teachers - good or bad.The liberals have been in charge of public education for decades.
              The liberals are supportive of the public school unions.
              The public school unions give very generously to the liberal politicians.
              So, yeah, it's the liberals, and you are showing your profound ignorance of the facts.


              Not forgetting the citation 3 posts after that from a RW self-proclaimed “media watchdog” [Media Research Centre] as if the observations from that site offered definitive proof on the veracity and exactitude of your contentions.

              When I pointed out that these topics are complicated I received this:

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Obviously too complicated for your simplistic little mind.


              And this remark was made to another contributor:

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I think she's just a pride-filled old bitty for whom it's impossible to admit she's wrong.


              When at post #113 I replied to your post point by point raising my own questions as necessary I got this in return at post # 114

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              How bout we stop the intensely fragmented parsing of every phrase, and bring it back to actual summary points, eh?


              The above selected examples, and I could have found a great many more, make it quite clear you have no desire to engage in any form of “serious” debate.

              Your real objective [and I have noticed this in your treatment of other correspondents who disagree with you] is to harangue that individual with the intent that they will capitulate and acquiesce to you on every single point.

              If your interlocutor declines or resists you, then you resort to your default position. You make unnecessary personal remarks either directly to that person or about them to other correspondent[s].

              Yours is the behaviour one would expect to see in a nine year schoolyard bully and has nothing whatsoever to do with any real desire for a mature, dispassionate and objective exchange.

              To be honest I do not think you are capable of putting aside your prejudices and emotions. You flaunt them too often.
              "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                Below are a few examples from this thread of what you presumably consider to be "serious" correspondence.



                I have received such mature and adult introductory comments from you as:
                And again:


                Perhaps the following comment is what you consider to be dispassionate objectivity:



                Not forgetting the citation 3 posts after that from a RW self-proclaimed “media watchdog” [Media Research Centre] as if the observations from that site offered definitive proof on the veracity and exactitude of your contentions.

                When I pointed out that these topics are complicated I received this:



                And this remark was made to another contributor:



                When at post #113 I replied to your post point by point raising my own questions as necessary I got this in return at post # 114



                The above selected examples, and I could have found a great many more, make it quite clear you have no desire to engage in any form of “serious” debate.

                Your real objective [and I have noticed this in your treatment of other correspondents who disagree with you] is to harangue that individual with the intent that they will capitulate and acquiesce to you on every single point.

                If your interlocutor declines or resists you, then you resort to your default position. You make unnecessary personal remarks either directly to that person or about them to other correspondent[s].

                Yours is the behaviour one would expect to see in a nine year schoolyard bully and has nothing whatsoever to do with any real desire for a mature, dispassionate and objective exchange.

                To be honest I do not think you are capable of putting aside your prejudices and emotions. You flaunt them too often.
                Talk about some longwinded projection!
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                The uninformed opinions of QuantaFille merely echo your own prejudices. Nothing more.

                Tell me, how is it that you can keep all those posts on file and at the ready, but then you ask someone to answer a question while editing out part of their post that already directly answers that question? How does that work?
                Last edited by Gondwanaland; 05-04-2021, 06:04 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  To be honest
                  That would be refreshing!

                  I do not think you are capable of putting aside your prejudices and emotions. You flaunt them too often.
                  Wow, I'm gonna lose another night's sleep worrying that some in Germany is unhappy because I don't play her little games.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                    Alas, that's how she's been for years. Elsewhere beyond this forum there was one time where she did that regularly to one poster, and then finally that poster got fed up, started just responding to small parts of her posts and ignoring the rest, and boy, was there a fit thrown over that, that her posts that she spent time writing out were being ignored. Followed by a lot of grammar/word nitpicking. And then utter silence when she was called on the hypocrisy.
                    I'll be fine dealing with her if she stops the nonsense, I actually kinda like her for some odd reason. But just not playing the games.

                    And, yeah, she can go back and collet all kinds of posts to use as weapons, but she can't just converse without the nonsense.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                      Tell me, how is it that you can keep all those posts on file and at the ready, but then you ask someone to answer a question while editing out part of their post that already directly answers that question? How does that work?
                      It just hit me --- she's like the wife in the unhappy couple, where the husband realizes he's been a turd and wants to start over, and she launches into all the past and throws it in his face!

                      I had a couple like that last week that I was counseling --- she just couldn't let things go. When they left, my secretary came into my office and said, "yeah, I remember back in 1903 that you said...."

                      That's kind of a standing joke.... but if you can't let go of the past, you'll never improve the future.

                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • Meanwhile, leaving the drama behind....

                        DC Police Union says reform has hurt the department, but data suggests otherwise

                        The D.C. Council has taken steps to create more accountability in policing with recent police reform legislation, but the city’s police union says some of those changes have made it harder for officers to do their jobs.

                        Gregg Pemberton, chair of the D.C. Police Union, said that while he agrees with a majority of the provisions in the bill and does not oppose the release of some evidence in certain use-of-force cases, the release of officers’ names to the public is cause for concern.

                        “Officers whose names have been released have become the subject of some pretty serious threats,” said Pemberton.

                        He also believes changes to the disciplinary process eliminate the system altogether, leaving many officers reluctant to engage and resulting in rising crime.

                        Pemberton said since the new bill went into effect, 313 officers have retired or resigned. Overall, he said that leaves fewer than 3,600 Metropolitan Police Department officers. A drop below 3,300 officers would be what he calls “catastrophic” for the city.

                        “We don’t like the idea that the city council wants to put their own employees in that environment in the name of accountability,” added Pemberton.

                        Pemberton’s numbers, though, don’t line up with figures D.C. police released to WTOP.


                        Yet another situation where the union is in conflict with the civilian officials who fund the police, and the police get caught in the middle.
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          Your real objective ... is to harangue that individual....
                          Still laughing at this -- anybody else detect a bit of irony?

                          "define this" "define that" "that's not the what the dictionary says" "that's not what that means" "archaic definitions are not allowed" "only MY definition of the word" "you have reading comprehension problems" ....



                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • Meanwhile, the Police Unions are getting pushback after decades of abuse...

                            San Antonio Activists Take On Police Union Contract

                            A ballot measure in San Antonio would strip the police union of its collective bargaining rights. NPR's Michel Martin speaks with Oji Martin, co-founder of Fix SAPD, which wants voters to approve it.

                            For some time now, activists seeking change around this country's criminal justice system have made police abuse a top priority. Increasingly, activists and officeholders have pointed to police unions and their contracts as a major roadblock to those changes. A group in San Antonio called Fix SAPD is now trying to change that dynamic in their city. A ballot measure in today's citywide election would, if passed, repeal the union's collective bargaining rights. Oji Martin co-founded Fix SAPD, and she is with us now to tell us more from San Antonio. Oji Martin, thanks so much for joining us.

                            OJI MARTIN: It's a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

                            MARTIN: I think I should mention that we do not believe that we are related, even though we have the same last name. So with that being said, this is a relatively new group started just this past year. Could you just tell us a little bit about how Fix SAPD got started? Like, what was the germ of the idea?

                            O MARTIN: Yeah, so it started directly after the death of George Floyd. Like so many other Americans sitting in my home, I was just watching the television screen wondering how could this happen and what can we do about it? And it began with the kitchen table conversation with my brother that led to us doing more investigation on a Washington Post reporting that San Antonio was No. 1 in the nation for rehiring fired officers. And a deeper dive into it, we saw that there are some issues within our current police union contract that have resulted in that high percentage of rehired officers that have been fired previously by the chief.

                            So we decided to talk to our neighbors, talk to our family and friends and basically were able to get people excited about this issue of fixing the accountability problems in San Antonio by repealing collective bargaining for police officers here in our city. That was really the only way that we could have impact on the contract itself.

                            MARTIN: And collective bargaining - for people who don't know, that means what? That just means that the union represents the employees and negotiates around issues like what - overtime wages, disciplinary procedures, things of that sort?

                            O MARTIN: Correct. So with collective bargaining, the police union here in San Antonio represents the police officers of San Antonio Police Department. And they are able to negotiate on benefits, wage, compensation, all that stuff. But something else that they are able to negotiate on is discipline. And for most people, right off the bat, if you ask them this, should accountability be negotiable, it is no. Accountability is non-negotiable. Great. Negotiate on your benefits, your pension, your health care. All that is fine. But when it comes to holding bad apple officers accountable for their actions, that is non-negotiable. And that is what we are trying to do here in San Antonio, bring accountability to the forefront and make sure that it is something that we consider in any contract that is signed moving forward.


                            It targets, of course "collective bargaining", which I have pointed out is the biggest problem with PUBLIC SECTOR unions.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • Here's an interesting take on Abolishing Police Unions....

                              Abolish police unions, and the law can finally treat officers like everyone else | Washington Examiner

                              We can disagree, Left and Right, on how to handle the debate about racial justice spurred by the killing of George Floyd. But we should all be able to agree on at least one step forward: abolish police unions. I would argue, strongly, that it wasn't racism (whether institutional or structural) that killed Floyd because, sadly, as the case of Justine Ruszyzk shows, death by cop doesn't just happen to black people. Cops in Minneapolis have throttled at least 44 people into unconsciousness in just the past five years, that might have something to do with it. As to why that has happened, I insist that it's because we don't, yet we ought to, hold the police to the same general standards of care and attention that we do everyone else.

                              As Alex Tabbarok points out, union contracts mean that police, if arrested for some reason, enjoy privileges that the rest of us most certainly don't if we're arrested. As Sam Sinangwye points out (and he's a researcher into this very problem), in places where union contracts provide more privileges, then police violence is greater. It's useful to provide a reminder of what President Franklin Roosevelt said about public sector unions: There are “insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management.” The biggest problem here is we're talking about the police — the very people who are supposed, at least, to be no more than (and absolutely no less than) citizens in uniform.


                              A police officer has a job that can be far more dangerous than a buger flipper or a car salesman, or a machinist.... his job is inherently dangerous to himself, but he also can be a deadly danger to people around him - accidentally or on purpose.

                              As the article states, police officers have "rights" that none of the rest of us have.

                              While I'm not full-bore in agreement with abolishing police unions, I certainly think they need to be scaled back a bunch.
                              And it's quite possible that that's only possible by abolishing a current union and replacing it with something else entirely.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                                You quoted my words. Did you not understand them?



                                What archaic usage of words did I employ in my reply that Sparko quoted?
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Where did I say that you did? You really need to stop making things up.
                                smiley waiting-impatient.gif

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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