Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

The Blue Wall of Silence Is Starting to Crack

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • chicken-playing-chicken-mike-savad.jpg

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      My mistake. I didn't know that you were expecting a perfect, flawless solution. One that will work in every case regardless of circumstances 100% of the time. Just like we commonly have with nearly every endeavor we encounter in our daily lives.

      I said that such a move would "make a tremendous difference," not that it was a panacea frau dummkopf.
      The point I am making is that merely transferring power to the [for want of a better word] "management" does not in, and of itself, remove the risk of corruption, as the incident related by Sparko demonstrates.

      There have to be checks and balances. Cow Poke has yet to put forward his suggestions for such measures.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        Either you are amazingly ignorant or simply dishonest. That was NOT the totality of the situation

        Let us [to use a phrase] "cut to the chase". In your proposed suggestion where the power is removed from the unions and placed with the Police Chief as well as with local representatives and/or politicians:
        1. What systems would you establish for police officers to raise concerns [without fear of intimidation and/or harassment] about their fellow officers, regardless of rank?
        2. To what organisation/authority would they address those concerns?
        3. What systems would you establish to ensure bullying and intimidation were reduced?
        4. What systems/procedures would you put in place for local government/council employees to raise concerns about elected representatives including [as with Sparko's brother's experience] the DA and other figures in the local judiciary?
        5. And lastly what policies do you consider could be introduced to reduce the influence of organised crime?

        Of course we all know that corruption can never be entirely eliminated from within police forces [or indeed any powerful and hierarchical organisation] but surely US society needs to ensure that insofar as it is humanly possible it is inhibited, deterred, thwarted, and prevented among those authorised To Protect and To Serve.

        Hence the question posed at the end of my OP: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          Well, that would be a first.



          or your inability to comprehend that I actually HAVE answered your questions.



          You're certainly entitled to think that, but the MAJOR part that you can't seem to comprehend is COLLLECTIVE BARGANING of a LABOR UNION being the answer.

          LABOR UNIONS protect their DUES PAYERS, pretty much at any cost.
          Police Associations do not.

          I even tried explaining how LABOR UNIONS work in this regard, and even ABSENT a "Police Association", the fact that there is not a LABOR UNION is, in and of itself, fundamental.
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          I can - but trying to explain that to you when you can't even grasp the significance of NOT having LABOR UNIONS was laborious enough.
          See my reply to you at post #153.
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            or your inability to comprehend that I actually HAVE answered your questions.
            You have not answered my questions pertaining to the "police association" within your own local police department and so I will put them to you yet again .

            Is this police association that exists within your police department similar to a union?

            That is:

            Is it financed by its members?
            Does it have a legally binding constitution?
            Do its members have an input into the appointment of officials/representatives?

            If not:

            Who runs it?
            Who works in it?
            Who pays for it?
            What services does it provide for officers?

            Now can you answer those questions or not?
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              The point I am making is
              Your "point" is crystal clear for everyone to see.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Your "point" is crystal clear for everyone to see.
                I am simply trying to get Cow Poke - our resident with alleged experience of the police to explain how an association within his own local police department works. For some reason he is being very coy about answering those specific questions.

                I am also pointing out that simply transferring power from one side to the other, without adequate checks and balances, does not remove the risk of corruption. That simple fact seems to have been missed.

                As Sparko noted his honest cop brother was at the mercy of a corrupt chief "and his buddies" who attempted "to get rid of" him [mercifully for Sparko's brother and his relatives that was not a euphemism].

                Furthermore those corrupt officials had the assistance of "the county DA".

                No police union was involved in that particular corruption scandal.
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  I am simply trying to get Cow Poke...
                  No.




                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    No.
                    Keep a look out for Grey Brother.

                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      Keep a look out for Grey Brother.

                      Yet another great story most people only know through the Disney-ified version

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Yet another great story most people only know through the Disney-ified version
                        Is there anything Disney touches that it does not ruin?

                        I do hope your back is all right though!
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          The point I am making is that merely transferring power to the [for want of a better word] "management" does not in, and of itself, remove the risk of corruption, as the incident related by Sparko demonstrates.

                          There have to be checks and balances. Cow Poke has yet to put forward his suggestions for such measures.
                          They're in your article....

                          We need every cop to wear a body camera. We need to curb the power of police unions, the biggest protectors of the blue wall. And we need officers of all stripes to back the words of those 14 in Minneapolis. They said, “This is not who we are.” Now prove it.


                          Are you too freakin' stupid to comprehend this? Your attempt to derail this is noted and rejected.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            They're in your article....

                            We need every cop to wear a body camera. We need to curb the power of police unions, the biggest protectors of the blue wall. And we need officers of all stripes to back the words of those 14 in Minneapolis. They said, “This is not who we are.” Now prove it.


                            Are you too freakin' stupid to comprehend this? Your attempt to derail this is noted and rejected.
                            How would any of that have prevented the situation that Sparko's brother found himself in?
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              How would any of that have prevented the situation that @Sparko's brother's found himself in?
                              You can't prevent every situation where there are bad people - you seem incapable of understanding that.

                              POLICE UNIONS are a big problem -- they happen to be present in the vast majority of "bad cop" situations that hit the national stage.
                              In the Chauvin situation - which triggered this thread - it was most CERTAINLY a problem.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                How would any of that have prevented the situation that Sparko's brother found himself in?
                                Again, you keep demanding a perfect solution for every situation. Can you give me an example of this in any field anywhere else? If not, why do you insist on demanding one here and blithely denigrate any proposal that does not meet this criteria?

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                7 responses
                                55 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                42 responses
                                236 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                105 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                194 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                73 responses
                                321 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X