Originally posted by rogue06
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The USA and "Anglo-Saxon traditions".
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"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostNative Americans are also immigrants. They just came earlier.
And this is a discussion about the culture of the U.S.A., which without Europeans wouldn't exist. And the original culture of the U.S.A. has its foundation in Anglo-Saxon, or if you prefer, British, tradition.
Original culture---I still maintain that the original culture is that of NA/FN peoples. Some cultural "myths" may be encouraged/sponsored by the government---the government housing policy gave European-Americans wealth/assets that advantaged them over non-whites...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...white-suburbia
...which in turn led to other myths such as "the American dream" and "hard work as the road to success"...etc. The whole WASP "cultural image"---house, car, wife at home, happy kids ---was a feel-good story.
One could also say, influences originated from non-WASP sources but became "American" (European-American) when they adopted/appropriated it?.... Surfing (Hawaii,) Jazz (African-American), Cajun food (French) Creole food (mixed)...and so much more....
Even the wars fought by the U.S. ---including the "American" Revolution had major contributions from African-Americans and Native-Americans--though these are not celebrated to the extent the "Anglo-Saxon" (Wasp) achievements are...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa...cated%20troops.
IMO, European-Americans have done a good job of mixing various cultural influences to come up with an image/ideal that is distinctively "American". Speaking as someone outside of the U.S.---I like Hollywood movies and "American" music. American creativity belongs to all groups of peoples and it would be a disservice to attribute it to just one group as a feel-good myth/story.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
What "British" traditions do you consider would have been found among the Jamestown settlers? And how many of the first settlers came from Scotland or Ireland?
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Originally posted by siam View Post
Native Amercians/First Nations---Yes, it seems so...but if we use that argument---then Europeans in Europe are also immigrants---after all, we all migrated from Africa?
Original culture---I still maintain that the original culture is that of NA/FN peoples. Some cultural "myths" may be encouraged/sponsored by the government---the government housing policy gave European-Americans wealth/assets that advantaged them over non-whites...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...white-suburbia
...which in turn led to other myths such as "the American dream" and "hard work as the road to success"...etc. The whole WASP "cultural image"---house, car, wife at home, happy kids ---was a feel-good story.
One could also say, influences originated from non-WASP sources but became "American" (European-American) when they adopted/appropriated it?.... Surfing (Hawaii,) Jazz (African-American), Cajun food (French) Creole food (mixed)...and so much more....
Even the wars fought by the U.S. ---including the "American" Revolution had major contributions from African-Americans and Native-Americans--though these are not celebrated to the extent the "Anglo-Saxon" (Wasp) achievements are...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa...cated%20troops.
IMO, European-Americans have done a good job of mixing various cultural influences to come up with an image/ideal that is distinctively "American". Speaking as someone outside of the U.S.---I like Hollywood movies and "American" music. American creativity belongs to all groups of peoples and it would be a disservice to attribute it to just one group as a feel-good myth/story.
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Originally posted by siam View Post
One similarity between British food culture and American food culture is the use of apples for desert?---apple crumble and apple pie...?.... was one influenced by the other?...anyone know?
I understand that Applejack is similar in some respects to Calvados."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
The indigenous peoples might have been the first cultures in NA, but, given our history, you would be hard pressed to say much of our culture came from them.
Awhile back there was an attempt to highlight these influences which unfortunately led to numerous wild exaggerations and outright false claims -- like the one that the Constitution is largely grounded in concepts expressed by the "Seven Nations" or Iroquois Confederacy.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
The indigenous peoples might have been the first cultures in NA, but, given our history, you would be hard pressed to say much of our culture came from them.
Also...if we define "culture" loosely and include those aspects that formed as a reaction---then U.S. gun "culture" and Movies such as American "Westerns" might qualify as reactionary culture to the presence of Native Americans?...If so, one might at least be able to point to indirect influence?
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostThere are also numerous mainland European recipes that use apples including alcoholic drinks such as Cider and Calvados.
I understand that Applejack is similar in some respects to Calvados.
Calvados---made in France in 911 ...!!..
Apparently apples originate from Central Asia---around Kazakhstan. So the signature dish of the U.S. is made from fruit from C.Asia---seems fitting....
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Originally posted by siam View Post
True---but that would be because European-American "immigrants" refused to "assimilate" to the "original" cultures and instead insisted on following their own----an issue some of them complain about when other immigrants try to do the same....?
But if we take what you say at face value, you just showed the danger of not requiring assimilation.
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Originally posted by siam View Post
Also...if we define "culture" loosely and include those aspects that formed as a reaction---then U.S. gun "culture" and Movies such as American "Westerns" might qualify as reactionary culture to the presence of Native Americans?...If so, one might at least be able to point to indirect influence?
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Originally posted by siam View Post
interesting....
Calvados---made in France in 911 ...!!..
Apparently apples originate from Central Asia---around Kazakhstan. So the signature dish of the U.S. is made from fruit from C.Asia---seems fitting...."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by siam View Post
interesting....
Calvados---made in France in 911 ...!!..
Apparently apples originate from Central Asia---around Kazakhstan. So the signature dish of the U.S. is made from fruit from C.Asia---seems fitting....
Perhaps you've heard of "Johnny Appleseed," who unlike so many legendary people from that time was a real person.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
Let's be specific. The settlers were not immigrants they were colonizers. They didn't come to join the country that was here, they sought to make here part of thier country. That's a big and different mindset.
But if we take what you say at face value, you just showed the danger of not requiring assimilation.
The definition of "immigrant" is general enough that it can be stretched ?....
im·mi·grant
noun- a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.
I can understand. Ofcourse everyone thinks their culture is the best...it is natural. But if everyone thinks this way---how do we manage when 2 (or more) different cultures meet/confront?
Perhaps by re-imagining the concept of "identity" and the nature of our attachment --Some of our presumptions are that a) cultural identity is static (remains the same over a long period of time), b) cultural identity attachment defines who "we" are. c) cultural identity attachment (tribe) is zero-sum (winner/loser)
What if we change our assumptions?....a) cultural identity is generational, therefore subject to change b) cultural identity is one of many identity constructs that can define "us" c) cultural identity attachments need not be zero-sum---can harmonize, syncretize or create new cultural identities.
If we look at our most basic social building block---which is family----we can see some of these dynamics play out. As families come together and change with each generation we have examples of how we might construct presumptions of larger social structures?.....
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