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The USA and "Anglo-Saxon traditions".

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  • The USA and "Anglo-Saxon traditions".

    I wonder what Ms Greene and Mr Gosar understand by "Anglo-Saxon political traditions" and how they consider that "mass immigration was putting the “unique identity” of the U.S. at risk."

    From the article: https://apnews.com/article/politics-...0ed92b9ef2ce03

    "The document aims some of its toughest language at immigration. President Joe Biden’s administration has struggled to handle large numbers of migrants at the Southwest border and has had little success winning legislation in Congress.

    “America is a nation with a border, and a culture, strengthened by a common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions,” the paper says. “History has shown that societal trust and political unity are threatened when foreign citizens are imported en-masse into a country.”


    Nobody with even a twelve year old's understanding of the history of continental America could believe such nonsense.

    The AP article continues that the document "adds that “the long-term existential future of America as a unique country with a unique culture and a unique identity being put at unnecessary risk is something our leaders” cannot ignore."

    In what respect is the USA's culture "unique"?

    It is a confection of ideas and traditions brought initially by the Europeans who first established colonies on the eastern and western seaboards, and later added to by immigrants from all over the world. In the last 120 years or so and certainly certainly since the 1950s, it has been widely embellished by mass advertising, and even, on occasion, invented. Or is an invented culture what Ms Greene and Mr Gosar and their ilk consider to be "unique" about the USA?

    Nor can the delicious irony of Mr Gaetz' endorsing the America First Caucus cannot be lost on anyone with a sense of humour.

    "Gaetz tweeted: “I’m proud to join @mtgreenee in the #AmericaFirst Caucus. We will end wars, stop illegal immigration & promote trade that is fair to American workers.” Gaetz is facing a federal investigation for sex trafficking accusations, according to people who have described the probe on condition of anonymity."

    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I wonder what Ms Greene and Mr Gosar understand by "Anglo-Saxon political traditions"...
    I assume they haven't heard of the Norman Conquest, and the defeat of the Anglo-Saxons at the Battle of Hastings in 1066.

    I hope the "New Republicans" don't close down all the Mexican restaurants. Until COVID hit, my family always took a yearly three week trip to California (more specifically, Disneyland; my daughters have spent approximately one year of their lives inside Disney parks). One of the things I like about Southern California is the availability of what I assume is authentic Mexican food. Much better than the Mexican food sold here in Canada.

    "The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." - P. J. O'Rourke

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    • #3
      No copy of the document, just people saying what's allegedly contained in it? Typical MSM.

      1-to-10 scale: Confidence level is 2

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


        In what respect is the USA's culture "unique"?
        We're pretty much an amalgamation of literally dozens of culture's and traditions but "Anglo-Saxon" is pretty much at the roots followed by other European ones like German. But as our language shows, we'll pretty much adopt and adapt anything we like. Kinda like what Hinduism is to religion we are to culture

        One major change that has taken place in recent decades is we once prided ourselves on being a "melting pot" where everything goes in but what comes out is "American." Unfortunately, this is considerably less so these days. Many immigrants (especially those not interested in coming here legally) are not at all interested in assimilating. They are aided by some on the left who in some cases even encourage them to remain separate and even don't learn English[1]. These folks will even tell you that they don't want a "melting pot" but a salad with distinct, separate groups. Essentially, balkanization and all the things that come with it.





        1. This was clearly demonstrated a few years back in California when there was a move to help integrate immigrant children into society by teaching them English. Some on the left went apoplectic in response.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
          No copy of the document, just people saying what's allegedly contained in it? Typical MSM.

          1-to-10 scale: Confidence level is 2
          B-but, but "sources say"

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Reepicheep View Post

            I assume they haven't heard of the Norman Conquest, and the defeat of the Anglo-Saxons at the Battle of Hastings in 1066.

            I hope the "New Republicans" don't close down all the Mexican restaurants. Until COVID hit, my family always took a yearly three week trip to California (more specifically, Disneyland; my daughters have spent approximately one year of their lives inside Disney parks). One of the things I like about Southern California is the availability of what I assume is authentic Mexican food. Much better than the Mexican food sold here in Canada.
            Now you are in danger of falling into the same trap!

            Here is Duncan Sayer from 2017 on the myth of English Anglo-Saxon origins. https://theconversation.com/why-the-...s-a-myth-88272

            "archaeological research, which examines ancient DNA and artefacts to explore who these “indigenous” Anglo-Saxons were, shows that the people of fifth and sixth century England had a mixed heritage and did not base their identity on a biological legacy. The very idea of the Anglo-Saxon ancestor is a more recent invention linked closely with the English establishment. For decades, archaeologists and geneticists have sought to identify Anglo-Saxons in England. An early attempt in 2002 relied on modern DNA with a study of the male Y chromosome suggesting there had been a 95% population replacement of Britons by the Anglo-Saxons, comprised of different people from Northern Europe. But another study, based on mitochondrial DNA which is inherited from the mother, found no evidence of significant post-Roman migration into England. A third paper suggested that the genetic contribution of the Anglo-Saxons in south-eastern England was under 50%."

            He continues:

            "The idea of the Anglo-Saxon is a romanticised and heavily politicised notion. When Gildas, a sixth century Monk wrote De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae (On the Ruin and Conquest of Britain) he referred only to Saxons. Writing 200 years later, the Venerable Bede used the word “Anglorum” in his ecclesiastical history to describe a people unified under the church. In the ninth century, Alfred the Great used the term Anglo-Saxon to describe the extent of his realm – but this description did not persist.

            It was not until the 16th century that pre-Norman people were consistently described as Anglo-Saxons. Previously, stories like the 1485 Le Morte d'Arthur, by Thomas Malory, romanticised Arthurian antagonists who defended Britain from invading Saxons. This origin story was important enough to late medieval Englishness that Henry VIII installed a round table in Winchester castle."


            And he ends:

            "Today, the term Anglo-Saxon is a convenient label for those opposed to future immigration. While it collectively describes some post-Roman and early medieval culture, it has never accurately described a biological ethnicity nor an indigenous people. The DNA evidence points to an integrated people of mixed ancestry who lived side by side.

            Anglo-Saxon ancestry is a modern English myth – the English are not descended from one group of people, but from many and that persists in our culture and in our genes."



            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

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            • #7
              Simple question. Why do the Jutes always get left out of the conquest of Britain after the Romans left? They were involved just as much as the Angles or Saxons.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Reepicheep View Post

                I assume they haven't heard of the Norman Conquest, and the defeat of the Anglo-Saxons at the Battle of Hastings in 1066.
                When people use profanity, they use Anglo-Saxon, not Norman, terms. The Anglo-Saxon leadership was defeated at the Battle of Hastings; Normans merely took over the top slots.
                I hope the "New Republicans" don't close down all the Mexican restaurants. Until COVID hit, my family always took a yearly three week trip to California (more specifically, Disneyland; my daughters have spent approximately one year of their lives inside Disney parks). One of the things I like about Southern California is the availability of what I assume is authentic Mexican food. Much better than the Mexican food sold here in Canada.
                Draconian blue-state COVID lockdowns have done far more to close down restaurants than "New Republicans" ever will. Despite successful assimilation, there are plenty of excellent Irish, German, Italian, French, etc. restaurants around - and the Irish, in particular, experienced significant discrimination.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. Ė St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  Now you are in danger of falling into the same trap!

                  Here is Duncan Sayer from 2017 on the myth of English Anglo-Saxon origins. https://theconversation.com/why-the-...s-a-myth-88272
                  Who is Duncan Sayer, that we should care about his opinions? There were a number of explicitly Saxon kingdoms, and the Angles were sufficiently prominent that the whole area got tagged as "England" after them. These are not sixteenth century inventions. Mr. Sayer doth protest too much, it seems. (For the record, I don't have much skin in this game; my surname is probably of early 18th century Dutch extraction, and my only Anglo-Saxon connection is via 17th century Cottons and Mathers; I'm mostly German and Irish).
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. Ė St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Simple question. Why do the Jutes always get left out of the conquest of Britain after the Romans left? They were involved just as much as the Angles or Saxons.
                    Perhaps the Jute kingdoms didn't last long? I'm a little hazy on the origins of that era's kingdoms, other than East Anglia and the obviously Saxon Essex, Sussex and Wessex. The Wiki article on the Heptarchy, to the extent it can be trusted, refers only to a minor Jutish kingdom on the Isle of Wight and The Meonwara, a Jutish tribe in Hampshire.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. Ė St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Who is Duncan Sayer,
                      Can you not read?

                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      There were a number of explicitly Saxon kingdoms, and the Angles were sufficiently prominent that the whole area got tagged as "England" after them.
                      Engla land, the land of the Angles. Hence today there is a region of south east England still known as East Anglia.

                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      These are not sixteenth century inventions. Mr. Sayer doth protest too much, it seems.
                      I suspect most reasonable individuals would take the informed opinion of an academic based at a university in the north of England over the remarks of a pseudonymous contributor to an insignificant Christian discussion board on the internet.

                      But perhaps I am just biased.


                      "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Simple question. Why do the Jutes always get left out of the conquest of Britain after the Romans left? They were involved just as much as the Angles or Saxons.
                        According to Bede they settled in the south of England around Hampshire and Kent. It seems the name died out.
                        "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post

                          and the Irish, in particular, experienced significant discrimination.
                          I'll never forget that PBS series (IIRC The Irish in America) where they noted that when they wanted to build a canal near Washington D.C., slaveowners would not allow their slaves to be used because the work was too risky and dangerous. So it was agreed upon to hire Irish workers because nobody cared what happened to them.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            According to Bede they settled in the south of England around Hampshire and Kent. It seems the name died out.
                            It was a question I'd ask my teachers way back whenever we studied English history and not a one ever had an answer.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              When people use profanity, they use Anglo-Saxon, not Norman, terms.
                              The "F" word's origin remains obscure. Nor was there ever an Anglo-Saxon language. There was Old English. Nor was there an Anglo-Saxon society pre the Normans [who were also the descendants of a north Germanic people]. William was also related to Edward [aka the Confessor]

                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Despite successful assimilation, there are plenty of excellent Irish, German, Italian, French, etc. restaurants around
                              And Chinese.

                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              - and the Irish, in particular, experienced significant discrimination.
                              As did the Chinese.
                              "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                              Comment

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