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JFK vs. Biden on Taxes

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  • Littlejoe
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    It was titled "JFK vs Biden on taxes" and was indeed mostly about that topic. Clearly Biden is far further to the right than JFK was on taxes, supporting tax rates that are about half what JFK endorsed.

    The massive right-ward shift of the Democratic party since JFK remains a huge problem. And the party's current support for a lower corporate tax rate than what was current during the Obama years shows they are still moving right. Biden is the most right-wing Democratic president since WWII, in the sense that he is advocating for the lowest tax rates that any Democratic president in that time has ever supported.
    Marginal tax rates compared now vs. then is not the whole story as I pointed out earlier. Tax deductions and loopholes have changed drastically as well making the marginal rate not need to be as high to achieve the same effect in regard to revenue. That's why your point about it is moot.

    Concerning Corporate taxes, people are waking up to the fact that Corporate Tax burdens aren't really shouldered by corporations. The taxes are paid by consumers...i.e. me and other Americans. So, we pay taxes on our income, then pay the taxes of corporations with our after tax income...yeah, that's fair. If anyone thinks that a corporation doesn't pass on the tax burden to their consumers, then they don't understand the basics of business operations.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Yes, the Democrat Party used to be the God and Country Party -- these days they fight over whether God should even be allowed in.
    I've ordered "JFK Conservative" and look forward to reading it.

    I also liked RFK. I thought he really grew up after Jack died and would have made a good president if he hadn't been killed.



    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    If you, by self-admission acknowledge you don't know much about the topic, why are you so stubbornly holding to false claims that the Dems have moved left? Why do you repeat this claim every time you're given evidence that the opposite is true?
    Good grief. Give it a rest.

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    I'm interested in how the Democratic Party has changed over the years and I haven't gotten very far in my research. It appears that the Democratic Party has gone further and further to the left.
    If you, by self-admission acknowledge you don't know much about the topic, why are you so stubbornly holding to false claims that the Dems have moved left? Why do you repeat this claim every time you're given evidence that the opposite is true?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post

    Taxes was just a start.

    I liked JFK and would have voted for him if he had not been killed.

    I'm interested in how the Democratic Party has changed over the years and I haven't gotten very far in my research. It appears that the Democratic Party has gone further and further to the left.

    https://badgerherald.com/opinion/201...days-liberals/

    Clip: "Even so, Kennedy’s record looks more like that of a modern political conservative than a liberal. If he returned to see the Democratic Party of 2017, he would find it unrecognizable from his party in 1963. The key policies he held dear have been extinguished by Democrats today."
    Yes, the Democrat Party used to be the God and Country Party -- these days they fight over whether God should even be allowed in.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    It was titled "JFK vs Biden on taxes" and was indeed mostly about that topic. Clearly Biden is far further to the right than JFK was on taxes, supporting tax rates that are about half what JFK endorsed.

    The massive right-ward shift of the Democratic party since JFK remains a huge problem. And the party's current support for a lower corporate tax rate than what was current during the Obama years shows they are still moving right. Biden is the most right-wing Democratic president since WWII, in the sense that he is advocating for the lowest tax rates that any Democratic president in that time has ever supported.
    Taxes was just a start.

    I liked JFK and would have voted for him if he had not been killed.

    I'm interested in how the Democratic Party has changed over the years and I haven't gotten very far in my research. It appears that the Democratic Party has gone further and further to the left.

    https://badgerherald.com/opinion/201...days-liberals/

    Clip: "Even so, Kennedy’s record looks more like that of a modern political conservative than a liberal. If he returned to see the Democratic Party of 2017, he would find it unrecognizable from his party in 1963. The key policies he held dear have been extinguished by Democrats today."

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    The OP is not only about taxes!!!!
    It was titled "JFK vs Biden on taxes" and was indeed mostly about that topic. Clearly Biden is far further to the right than JFK was on taxes, supporting tax rates that are about half what JFK endorsed.

    The massive right-ward shift of the Democratic party since JFK remains a huge problem. And the party's current support for a lower corporate tax rate than what was current during the Obama years shows they are still moving right. Biden is the most right-wing Democratic president since WWII, in the sense that he is advocating for the lowest tax rates that any Democratic president in that time has ever supported.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    The opposite is true: The Dems have gone further and further to the right, with modern Dems supporting much lower tax rates than even Republicans would have decades ago.
    The OP is not only about taxes!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    As the OP said: 'I'm interested in how the Democratic Party has changed over the years and I haven't gotten very far in my research. It appears that the Democratic Party has gone further and further to the left."
    The opposite is true: The Dems have gone further and further to the right, with modern Dems supporting much lower tax rates than even Republicans would have decades ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    A comment I saw today on twitter that made be think of this thread:
    Trump lowers the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%.

    Joe Biden raises it to 25%.

    Corporations get a bipartisan 10% tax cut.

    The rightward shift of both parties over the years is seen in the ever-lower tax rates they are promoting.

    For comparison, JFK lowered the corporate tax rate from 52% to 47%.

    So Biden's rate of 25% is almost half that of JFK's rate.
    As the OP said: 'I'm interested in how the Democratic Party has changed over the years and I haven't gotten very far in my research. It appears that the Democratic Party has gone further and further to the left."

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    A comment I saw today on twitter that made be think of this thread:
    Trump lowers the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%.

    Joe Biden raises it to 25%.

    Corporations get a bipartisan 10% tax cut.

    The rightward shift of both parties over the years is seen in the ever-lower tax rates they are promoting.

    For comparison, JFK lowered the corporate tax rate from 52% to 47%.

    So Biden's rate of 25% is almost half that of JFK's rate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Because the left has ZERO TOLERANCE for anybody having their own opinions with regard to abortion. They are clearly lying about being "pro choice" when you can't even make your own choice about such an important issue.
    I recently read a report by a Christian Pastor on Abortion (dated March 15, 2021). This is what he said:

    "This year marks 48 years since the Supreme Court declared abortion to be a fundamental right. Abortion was the leading cause of death worldwide in 2018, with 42 million victims. Last year an estimated 900,000 babies in the U.S. were electively aborted, which is more than the total American casualties in the two World Wars and the Vietnam War combined. In the U.S., 90 percent of preborn humans diagnosed with Down syndrome are terminated."


    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Because the left has ZERO TOLERANCE for anybody having their own opinions with regard to abortion. They are clearly lying about being "pro choice" when you can't even make your own choice about such an important issue.



    Well, the Catholic Church was also against fornication and adultery - which didn't seem to be a problem to JFK.

    About the closest anything I have found comes to an opinion on abortion by JFK was the statement “Now, on the question of limiting population: as you know the Japanese have been doing it very vigorously, through abortion, which I think would be repugnant to all Americans.”
    I've read that quote, too.

    Yeah, JFK problems with fornication and adultery.

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    A few graphs to highlight my earlier post's points on economics:

    US corporate tax rates from wiki:
    US_Effective_Corporate_Tax_Rate_1947-2011_v2.jpg

    Effective corporate tax rates have steadily dropped since WWII from a high of 50% to below 20% in the present day.

    Highest marginal tax rates from google:



    Just a reminder for people who aren't sure what marginal tax rates do: When you earn income it's broken into pieces for tax purposes, and the first 10k per year is taxed at 10%, the next 30k per year you earn is taxed at 12%, the next 45k you earn is taxed at 22%... above $520k per year the money is taxed at 37% currently. This is called "progressive taxation" or "marginal tax brackets", and it means that earning a higher salary never means you earn less total money even if it pushes you into the next tax bracket, because its only the money earned within a bracket that's taxed at that rate, not the whole salary. So the graph above is showing the marginal rate in the highest tax bracket - i.e. for really high earners what the highest part of their salary was being taxed at. Those are not at all the tax rates that were applying to ordinary people, or even the rates that were applying to the majority of the high-earner's salary.

    The above graph shows that after WWII, the highest tax bracket was paying around 91%. Since then it has been repeatedly dropped, and now the highest earners pay less than 40% tax on the most-taxed part of their income.

    US union membership from google:

    union-density-fig.jpg

    Since highs of over 30% in the post-WWII years, union membership has declined significantly to below 15% in the present day.

    In summary: Across multiple metrics, the US was peak-left-wing on economic policy shortly after WWII. Since the 1970s, the US, under both parties, has become more right-wing economically. Modern leaders like Obama, Trump, Biden, are vastly more right-wing economically than those of the earlier period like FDR and JFK. On these kinds of graphs, the Biden administration is further to the right than Reagan. To suggest he is further left than JFK, as was done in this thread, is insane.

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    Something President Reagan said started my research on this subject. He said: "I didn't leave the Democrat Party, they left me."
    One thing that struck me when I read a biography of Reagan was just how much of a serial liar he was. I was shocked to find that one of the jobs he had was to provide radio commentary for a sports game he couldn't see, and he would make up the commentary about the game, elaborating on the plays with made-up details, and the only facts he would receive about the games was short updates coming in by the telegraph that he would turn into fictitious play-by-play accounts for his radio audience. He seems to have taken that willingness to lie forward when he entered politics and was known for telling his audience what they wanted to hear with false anecdotes that played into their fears and prejudices.

    Given Reagan is (in)famous for throwing out the existing economic textbooks and pursuing the revolutionary new economic policies of Reganomics, it is pretty hilarious he would tell such a whopper of a lie as to pretend it was the Democratic party who had changed rather than him. Of course, by that point, he was just reciting speeches others had written, not writing them for himself. The question of why it was politically convenient for an administration that was changing a lot of stuff to pretend to be traditionalists has an obvious answer - to try and placate the people who were upset by the amount of change happening.

    Leave a comment:

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