What does "free speech" really mean?

[Sparko]

I think it means that I don't have to pay for audiobooks

[CivilDiscourse]

OK, but that's what CONGRESS can do or not do --- it does not preclude private citizens or business owners or other entities from putting restrictions on free speech in their own venues.

Yes. It's important to recognize that while interacting with private businesses or in private venues you do not have the legal right to free speech. However, free speech still exists, and those private businesses or venues are still "abridging" or "restricting" free speech, just legally.

[CivilDiscourse]

What part of "prevents the government from interfering with" was hard for you to understand?

I told you, I was going to be pedantic. You said "Free speech in the constitution" does something...And that is wrong. "Free speech in the constitution" means Free Speech, period, full stop, do not pass go, do not collect $200. The 1st Amendment prevents the government from doing stuff.

I am very pedantic here because too many people conflate "Free speech" and the 1st Amendment, and that so long as the government isn't punishing you for speech, then there is no free speech issue. That isn't true.

[Cow Poke]

From the original context of the first amendment, I'd argue"free speech" recognized a right to criticize the government.

I think that was a major consideration!

[Juvenal]

well "free speech" in the constitution just prevents the government from interfering with political and religious speech and beliefs. It doesn't cover things like inciting violence.

So I can see someone saying they support "free speech" but still limit stuff like cussing or porn.

From the original context of the first amendment, I'd argue"free speech" recognized a right to criticize the government.

[Cow Poke]

I'm going to get very pedantic and semantic here.

But, no it doesn't.

The text of the 1st amendment reads (Snipped to relevant parts):
Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press ..."

The constitution says congress cannot abridge "the freedom of speech". It does not create freedom of speech, it references it. This is important. Just as the constitution does not define "armies", but gives congress the power to raise and fund them. The concept of "Armies" and the concept of "Freedom of speech" are separate from the constitution, and only gives or restricts powers relating to those concepts.

This is important because that means that something can infringe on freedom of speech while not falling afoul of the 1st amendment. (I.E. Cancel Culture)

OK, but that's what CONGRESS can do or not do --- it does not preclude private citizens or business owners or other entities from putting restrictions on free speech in their own venues.

[Sparko]

I'm going to get very pedantic and semantic here.

But, no it doesn't.

The text of the 1st amendment reads (Snipped to relevant parts):
Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press ..."

The constitution says congress cannot abridge "the freedom of speech". It does not create freedom of speech, it references it. This is important. Just as the constitution does not define "armies", but gives congress the power to raise and fund them. The concept of "Armies" and the concept of "Freedom of speech" are separate from the constitution, and only gives or restricts powers relating to those concepts.

This is important because that means that something can infringe on freedom of speech while not falling afoul of the 1st amendment. (I.E. Cancel Culture)

What part of "prevents the government from interfering with" was hard for you to understand?

[CivilDiscourse]

well "free speech" in the constitution just prevents the government from interfering with political and religious speech and beliefs. It doesn't cover things like inciting violence.

So I can see someone saying they support "free speech" but still limit stuff like cussing or porn.

I'm going to get very pedantic and semantic here.

But, no it doesn't.

The text of the 1st amendment reads (Snipped to relevant parts):
Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press ..."

The constitution says congress cannot abridge "the freedom of speech". It does not create freedom of speech, it references it. This is important. Just as the constitution does not define "armies", but gives congress the power to raise and fund them. The concept of "Armies" and the concept of "Freedom of speech" are separate from the constitution, and only gives or restricts powers relating to those concepts.

This is important because that means that something can infringe on freedom of speech while not falling afoul of the 1st amendment. (I.E. Cancel Culture)

[Sparko]

well "free speech" in the constitution just prevents the government from interfering with political and religious speech and beliefs. It doesn't cover things like inciting violence.

So I can see someone saying they support "free speech" but still limit stuff like cussing or porn.

[Cow Poke]

Freedom of speech. To be allowed to speak want one believes is true.

Naw -- you're even free to speak what you don't believe is true.

[37818]

Freedom of speech. To be allowed to speak want one believes is true.

[CivilDiscourse]

I think that the point KG is making here is that Lindell made such a fuss setting up an alternative social network that allows free speech and immediately turned around and announced various restrictions on that speech.

I get that, but it's a bit of a disingenuous argument. Yes its not absolutely free, but from the OP's post he's saying "don't say very specific things" (i.e. words and phrases).

So for example, there's a big difference between "You are not allowed to make pro-choice arguments", and "You can make pro-choice arguments, but you can't refer to the fetus as the inaccurate term "parasite".

[rogue06]

Quick story.....

When my oldest daughter was about 5, we were home after church having lunch, and she told me that her Sunday School teacher said a bad word in Sunday School.
Her Sunday School teacher was a house carpenter, so I knew that was a possibility, but I wondered what would cause him to swear.

I asked her "what did he say" - and she said, "I can't tell you, because I'll get in trouble". So I told her, "but I really need to know if I'm going to talk to him".

She said, "he said the 's-h' word". OK, now that was surprising, so I asked what was going on in class to make him say that.

She said.... "well, we were being kinda noisy, and one kid was sassing, and he got mad and said 'y'all SHUT UP'!"

I said... oh, THAT s-h word!

Reminds me of my getting sent to the principal's office in fifth grade for swearing. I had said "gosh darn it." And no the teacher did not misunderstand it. I was sent to the office for saying "gosh darn."

When the principal asked me what happened and read the note confirming it, he rolled his eyes as he shook his head and told me to get back to class.

[Cow Poke]

I just knewd it.

Quick story.....

When my oldest daughter was about 5, we were home after church having lunch, and she told me that her Sunday School teacher said a bad word in Sunday School.
Her Sunday School teacher was a house carpenter, so I knew that was a possibility, but I wondered what would cause him to swear.

I asked her "what did he say" - and she said, "I can't tell you, because I'll get in trouble". So I told her, "but I really need to know if I'm going to talk to him".

She said, "he said the 's-h' word". OK, now that was surprising, so I asked what was going on in class to make him say that.

She said.... "well, we were being kinda noisy, and one kid was sassing, and he got mad and said 'y'all SHUT UP'!"

I said... oh, THAT s-h word!

[rogue06]

Busted!!!!

I just knewd it.