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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    The problem is when they get pushed on you when you really don't need one.

    When I was in High Skewl, one of the other kids was killed in a traffic accident about a mile from the school. Everyone had to go see a grief counsellor the next week. I only knew him well enough to recognize him by name. We spoke perhaps half a dozen times. From that seemed like a nice enough person. But there was no grief that needed counselling. I just didn't know him that well.

    When I tried to explain that to the counsellor she said I was in denial and scheduled another session. I didn't go.




    But for people that really need one they are priceless and should be made available.
    I remember when Kennedy was shot - they didn't call in grief counselors - they sent us home to our parents.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by eider View Post

      Oh yes. She has retired, I think. It's over for her.
      i bet she's a suicide risk, CP.
      Just dreadful.
      And just watch for the vultures to go after her.

      I'm sad for the victim too. I don't know why the police let keys stay in the car, or suspects stand by the driver doors, or anything about that. The whole stop looked odd to me.
      A lot of that has to do with optics -- cameras everywhere, so Police try to make double durn sure they don't violate anybody's constitutional rights or do anything that could be considered racist or overly aggressive, or.... all the while, it puts both themselves and the victim at greater risk.

      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        There was a "hole" in her training or department procedure that did not allow her to be sufficiently aware of which weapon she was drawing. I say this because an officer drawing the wrong weapon in an equally stress situation is rare to the point that is the first instance I've ever heard of.
        There's a reason that most tasers are BRIGHT YELLOW and have a totally different grip feel.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          There's a reason that most tasers are BRIGHT YELLOW and have a totally different grip feel.
          Was she wearing thick gloves? Because that is where her training failed. She should have instinctively realized her hand wasn't on the taser when she grabbed it (or WAS on the handgun when she grabbed it).

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Was she wearing thick gloves? Because that is where her training failed. She should have instinctively realized her hand wasn't on the taser when she grabbed it (or WAS on the handgun when she grabbed it).
            She wasn't wearing gloves -- both hands are bare. Here's a picture of her - from her own body cam - and it's clear it's her Glock in her hand.

            bare hand.jpg
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Cow Poke; 04-15-2021, 05:00 PM.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • I think one of the problems is that tasers have become more complex, so they weigh more, and handguns have embraced polymers and carbon fiber, so they weigh LESS.

              The difference between a loaded Glock and a loaded Taser is less than a pound. There was a time when a taser felt distinctively lighter in your hand.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • She's going to be replaying this in head for the rest of her life. It doesn't help that some people will refuse to accept that it was an accident.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  She's going to be replaying this in head for the rest of her life. It doesn't help that some people will refuse to accept that it was an accident.
                  I think it's nutty to think it was anything BUT an accident - but I believe it's a disqualifying accident - something from which she can't recover in law enforcement or related fields.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    There was a "hole" in her training or department procedure that did not allow her to be sufficiently aware of which weapon she was drawing. I say this because an officer drawing the wrong weapon in an equally stress situation is rare to the point that is the first instance I've ever heard of.
                    I'd never heard of it either, but apparently it's common enough that "weapons confusion scenario" is established terminology, at least per Jonathan Turley on Fox and Friends this AM. I believe he also uses it in related columns he wrote in the past few days.
                    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                    Beige Federalist.

                    Nationalist Christian.

                    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                    Justice for Matthew Perna!

                    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                      I'd never heard of it either, but apparently it's common enough that "weapons confusion scenario" is established terminology, at least per Jonathan Turley on Fox and Friends this AM. I believe he also uses it in related columns he wrote in the past few days.
                      Sixteen times in the last 10 years in actual practice.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        A lot of that has to do with optics -- cameras everywhere, so Police try to make double durn sure they don't violate anybody's constitutional rights or do anything that could be considered racist or overly aggressive, or.... all the while, it puts both themselves and the victim at greater risk.
                        Our police are obviously different to yours because they do work in different conditions. If a person is able to get out of their vehicle and go-sit in the police car then that is what happens. The cop approaches the vehicle, greets the driver, asks the driver to turn the engine off, briefly explains why s/he needed to stop the vehicle and then asks driver to 'come sit in the police car'. As the driver gets out the cop can then ask the driver to bring their keys with them for security.
                        Where a driver refuses or drives off (it happens) the police just follow, and if the escapee drives dangerously the police will discontinue the chase.
                        That can sound a bit weak, but we've got 65 million people living in a land about half the size of Texas, and our cctv coverage is many many more times more intensive than anything you've got. Where a 'Crime Pool car with cloned plates' has got away the car's details go in to the computer for instant recall.

                        Our cops have made mistakes, shot innocents, been caught in their own scams, etc.,......... but our training and counselling is very high quality, and I do wonder whether this police officer has been given in depth training on instant reactions with 'tazer or pistol', and I read a post which explains that her bail is set at $100,000........

                        I don't pray, CP, but my thoughts go out to both her and the family of the young man shot by accident.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                          Sixteen times in the last 10 years in actual practice.
                          That's what this article indicated and that they resulted in four fatalities, as well as noting:

                          What is certain is that these scenarios are avoidable. When they do happen, it’s typically the result of inadequate or lapsed officer training, according to at least a half dozen weapons and law-enforcement experts interviewed by the USA TODAY Network

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            That's what this article indicated and that they resulted in four fatalities, as well as noting:

                            What is certain is that these scenarios are avoidable. When they do happen, it’s typically the result of inadequate or lapsed officer training, according to at least a half dozen weapons and law-enforcement experts interviewed by the USA TODAY Network
                            In the spectrum of "policing in America", Tasers are only like 5 minutes ago, so it will take a while to get this experiential training throughout the system.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              In the spectrum of "policing in America", Tasers are only like 5 minutes ago, so it will take a while to get this experiential training throughout the system.
                              It does seem like just last year they replaced batons/billy clubs with them.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by eider View Post
                                Our police are obviously different to yours because they do work in different conditions. If a person is able to get out of their vehicle and go-sit in the police car then that is what happens. The cop approaches the vehicle, greets the driver, asks the driver to turn the engine off, briefly explains why s/he needed to stop the vehicle and then asks driver to 'come sit in the police car'. As the driver gets out the cop can then ask the driver to bring their keys with them for security.
                                That was very common back in my day - "we can talk in my car" - which, of course, necessitated a coded messaging system if dispatch needed to advise that the person was a wanted and/or dangerous person. Mind you - back then (mid 70's) we didn't have instant communication and confirmation of warrants and such. But there was still a sense of respect for police that the "bad actor" was extremely rare.

                                Where a driver refuses or drives off (it happens) the police just follow, and if the escapee drives dangerously the police will discontinue the chase.
                                That can sound a bit weak, but we've got 65 million people living in a land about half the size of Texas, and our cctv coverage is many many more times more intensive than anything you've got. Where a 'Crime Pool car with cloned plates' has got away the car's details go in to the computer for instant recall.
                                I think MOST police departments in the US are rethinking (or already have) the standards for pursuit --- if it's a broken tail-light, or the driver neglected to use proper turn signals, is that REALLY worth a high speed chase, crashed vehicles, and possibly lost lives?

                                Our cops have made mistakes, shot innocents, been caught in their own scams, etc.,......... but our training and counselling is very high quality, and I do wonder whether this police officer has been given in depth training on instant reactions with 'tazer or pistol', and I read a post which explains that her bail is set at $100,000........
                                Sometimes, and what I think may be the case here, a police officer is simply not cut out to be a police officer due to insecurity issues, fear, etc --- and they can fake it for a long time until the situation gets out of control.

                                I had a partner once who was always a "tough guy" cop, but one night we had to hunt down an escaped convict, and there was a suspicion that this escapee was hiding in the attic of a home under construction. My partner got there first, and motioned for ME to go up the stairs to check the attic. I could see the FEAR in his eyes, as he realized this was one of the most undesirable 'searches' you can imagine --- where your head is the first thing that appears to the victim, and HE knows where you're going to come in, and YOU don't have a clue which of the 360degrees he may be hiding in.

                                I don't pray, CP, but my thoughts go out to both her and the family of the young man shot by accident.
                                I'm a wee bit cynical on that -- I think he was pretty well destined to get in trouble with the law from his own bad choices, but - no - I wouldn't wish that on him.

                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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