Arkansas bans transgender surgeries and treatments....

[Cow Poke]

Exactly. Especially given the treatments (not even talking about surgery) increase cancer risks, stroke risks, heart attack risks, and likely other things that haven't even been detected yet. If you wanna do it as an adult, cool, go take those risks.

But hey, it's only a kid! Let's go ahead and experiment, and in a couple of decades we'll have real data!!!

[kccd]

No, that's how science SHOULD work - but when there's an agenda, it's always easy for "science" to find a way to support it.

Who sets this agenda that alters science? The fictional "Deep State"? Some global cabal of nameless sociopaths? Who?

[Cow Poke]

Who sets this agenda that alters science? The fictional "Deep State"? Some global cabal of nameless sociopaths? Who?

You're cute.

[Gondwanaland]

Who sets this agenda that alters science? The fictional "Deep State"? Some global cabal of nameless sociopaths? Who?

Usually whoever fronts the most money. For reference, see cigarette companies for literal decades, oil and gas for literal decades, the meat and dairy industry (even into today), the sugar industry for decades, etc.

[Psychic Missile]

Because it is.

61 percent resistance rate: https://www.jwatch.org/pa20090128000...ildren-persist

63 percent resistance rate:
https://jaacap.org/article/S0890-856...187-1/fulltext

there are also studies pre-2000 that show even higher resistance rates but there are objections (albeit mostly by trans activists) that the numbers may be inflated by gender nonconforming kids being counted as dysphoric (though I'd suggest it could also be lack of prevalence in jumping onto hormone treatments immediately back then, unlike recent years), so I refrained from including those.

Both of those studies are locked behind a paywall. Do you personally have access?

Also, are you against puberty blockers?

[seer]

Both of those studies are locked behind a paywall. Do you personally have access?

Also, are you against puberty blockers?

There is no question that a large minority, or even a majority, of children with gender dysphoria grow out of it in adulthood. So how do we tell, with any certainty, which group a particular child would fall in? It is a coin toss. So why on earth shouldn't we wait for adulthood to induce these biologically, life changing methods? Many that are irreversible.

[Gondwanaland]

Both of those studies are locked behind a paywall. Do you personally have access?

unfortunately not anymore. I did when my son was in college several years ago, his library access was shared amongst the family, including access to journals.

Also, are you against puberty blockers?

Most certainly. That irreversibly stunts natural growth of kids, years that they wont ever get back whether they desist or not.

[Psychic Missile]

There is no question that a large minority, or even a majority, of children with gender dysphoria grow out of it in adulthood. So how do we tell, with any certainty, which group a particular child would fall in? It is a coin toss. So why on earth shouldn't we wait for adulthood to induce these biologically, life changing methods? Many that are irreversible.

Why is there no question? How do you know that a large minority or majority "grow out of it"?

[Psychic Missile]

unfortunately not anymore. I did when my son was in college several years ago, his library access was shared amongst the family, including access to journals.

Most certainly. That irreversibly stunts natural growth of kids, years that they wont ever get back whether they desist or not.

So I can't verify the methodology of these studies either by looking at them myself or by asking you questions. Your claim was "we know the majority of gender dysphoric children desist from that dysphoria if not given such 'treatments'". I would like to know how these studies define "gender dysphoric". "children", "desist", "treatments", also study size and other relevant info. Do you have any other reason to believe this outside of studies you don't have access to?

Why do you think puberty blockers are irreversible?

[Gondwanaland]

So I can't verify the methodology of these studies either by looking at them myself or by asking you questions. Your claim was "we know the majority of gender dysphoric children desist from that dysphoria if not given such 'treatments'". I would like to know how these studies define "gender dysphoric". "children", "desist", "treatments", also study size and other relevant info. Do you have any other reason to believe this outside of studies you don't have access to?

You're welcome to imply I'm lying. But last I checked, 60+ percent is a majority.

Why do you think puberty blockers are irreversible?

Because they are. Your body goes through puberty at a specific time of your life. If you block several years of it or all of it, you dont magically restart puberty when you get off the blockers. Those years of growth are gone.

Hell, my sister had two years of severe gastrointestinal issues at the start of puberty. Between her body expending its energy dealing with that and the meds she had to take, she missed out on two years of growth. She ended up 5 inches shorter than the rest of her siblings' shortest height, when doctors had estimated she would be around the same height as us before that happened.

[seer]

Why is there no question? How do you know that a large minority or majority "grow out of it"?

From every study I have seen. This overview is a bit dated:http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01...y-grow_99.html

Also see page 591: https://books.google.com/books?id=M4...page&q&f=false

But why on earth shouldn't we wait, err on the side of caution?

[Psychic Missile]

You're welcome to imply I'm lying. But last I checked, 60+ percent is a majority.


Because they are. Your body goes through puberty at a specific time of your life. If you block several years of it or all of it, you dont magically restart puberty when you get off the blockers. Those years of growth are gone.

Hell, my sister had two years of severe gastrointestinal issues at the start of puberty. Between her body expending its energy dealing with that and the meds she had to take, she missed out on two years of growth. She ended up 5 inches shorter than the rest of her siblings' shortest height, when doctors had estimated she would be around the same height as us before that happened.

Not lying.. If you're making a claim, it only makes sense for me to want to review the cited evidence. Do you happen to know any of the answers to my questions regarding the study, like what age the participants were or how they diagnosed GD? If not, it doesn't really make sense to me that you're so certain in your opinion. Or is your opinion based on other evidence?

Do you have any evidence you can site that shows that puberty blockers are irreversible? The professional consensus is that they are, as illustrated in this Mayo Clinic article: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/art-20459075 It makes sense to me that digestive issues would result in a shorter height.

[Psychic Missile]

From every study I have seen. This overview is a bit dated:http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01...y-grow_99.html

Also see page 591: https://books.google.com/books?id=M4...page&q&f=false

But why on earth shouldn't we wait, err on the side of caution?

If you have one or two studies especially that you think is convincing, I'll look at them, but not a list of 11.

For the book you cited, it actually agrees with my position. It says that the majority of childhood GD desists in early adolescence, but that adolescents for whom GD does not desists are more likely to have GD as adults. That's why puberty blockers are applied at the beginning of puberty. Have you seen any studies that look at adults who have gone through puberty blockers and regret it?

Puberty blockers are waiting and erring on the side of caution, since GD is much more difficult to treat post-puberty and blockers are reversible.

[seer]

If you have one or two studies especially that you think is convincing, I'll look at them, but not a list of 11.

For the book you cited, it actually agrees with my position. It says that the majority of childhood GD desists in early adolescence, but that adolescents for whom GD does not desists are more likely to have GD as adults. That's why puberty blockers are applied at the beginning of puberty. Have you seen any studies that look at adults who have gone through puberty blockers and regret it?

Puberty blockers are waiting and erring on the side of caution, since GD is much more difficult to treat post-puberty and blockers are reversible.

Is there danger in using puberty blockers? Yes or no? And more likely to have GD in later adolescence doesn't tell us it will persist. Like I said, there are zero rational reasons to subject kids to this.

[NorrinRadd]

Tucker cited some stats and sources in his follow-up segment tonight.