Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Trump's contribution shell game scam to to gouge his supporters

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    So reading Shuny's article, the prechecked boxes in question were not hidden in the least. I agree they should not have been prechecked, but it wasn't like it was hidden in the fine print. This is what they looked like:

    oakImage-1614036126902-jumbo.png?quality=90&auto=webp.png

    and later:

    oakImage-1614036185542-jumbo.png

    Pretty hard to miss. Unless you are color blind like Cow Poke (The boxes are YELLOW, cp)
    Your post does not provide the surrounding text. Disclosures can be long and dense and if these were buried in walls of text that are unlikely to be read, then that is certainly an issue.

    The campaign also added another box at a later time point that automatically doubled the donation.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by kccd View Post
      I have donated to campaigns of people running in other states, only because I think they were excellent candidates who deserved to win. I had no skin in those games and did not ever consider making special requests.

      I have yet to see you denounce that fund-raising tactic used by Trump and now being used by other GOP candidates.
      Try reading the thread.


      In terms of honest candidates, Obama is at the top of the list.


      Mr "You can keep your doctor" and "I'll always post new legislation on the website so everybody can see it before...."

      He's a pants-on-fire liar. Oh, but wait.... he's black, so he gets a pass!

      And my trust was vindicated in that he had a remarkably scandal-free administration.
      Yeah, it's ok to lie and screw things up as long as it doesn't result in a scandal. Gotcha.

      You are SO incredibly gullible....

      The Biggest Controversies of Barack Obama's Presidency
      • Benghazi Controversy
      • IRS Scandal
      • AP Phone Records Scandal
      • Keystone XL Pipeline Controversy
      • Illegal Immigrants and Obamacare
      • Sequestration and the Federal Budget
      • Use of Executive Power
      • Gun Control Controversy
      • National Security Agency PRISM Surveillance System
      • Fast and Furious
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by kccd View Post

        Your post does not provide the surrounding text. Disclosures can be long and dense and if these were buried in walls of text that are unlikely to be read, then that is certainly an issue.
        trump01.jpg
        https://web.archive.org/web/20200313...ion=websitenav

        trump02.jpg
        https://web.archive.org/web/20200630...ion=websitenav



        "Contributors had to wade through a fine-print disclaimer and manually uncheck a box to opt out."
        -The New York Times
        Last edited by Mountain Man; 04-07-2021, 07:20 PM.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #64
          This one is my favorite: https://secure.winred.com/nrcc/retak...cc_menu_donate

          oakImage-1617818388755-jumbo.png?quality=90&auto=webp.png
          Last edited by CMD; 04-08-2021, 10:22 AM.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            Try reading the thread.





            Mr "You can keep your doctor" and "I'll always post new legislation on the website so everybody can see it before...."

            He's a pants-on-fire liar. Oh, but wait.... he's black, so he gets a pass!



            Yeah, it's ok to lie and screw things up as long as it doesn't result in a scandal. Gotcha.

            You are SO incredibly gullible....

            The Biggest Controversies of Barack Obama's Presidency
            • Benghazi Controversy
            • IRS Scandal
            • AP Phone Records Scandal
            • Keystone XL Pipeline Controversy
            • Illegal Immigrants and Obamacare
            • Sequestration and the Federal Budget
            • Use of Executive Power
            • Gun Control Controversy
            • National Security Agency PRISM Surveillance System
            • Fast and Furious
            "you can keep your doctor" was a prediction, not a statement of fact. And the fact is that Obamacare was run through private sector insurance companies that can change their preferred providers, so people can lose their doctors because of that. And besides the number who lost their doctors after the passage of Obamacare was miniscule.

            As for your list of controversies, a controversy is basically a disagreement, and sure conservatives disagreed with much of what Obama did, but that does not make any of it scandalous.

            I can't believe you put Benghazi at the top of your list of "controversies". After 8-9 hearings, no wrong-doing was found. And besides, Kevin McCarthy admitted that the purpose of the Benghazi hearings was to damage Hillary. In comparison, there was not a single hearing over the deaths of 4 servicemen in Niger during the Trump administration, and it is not clear what happened there. Does that count as a controversy?

            As I said, you can disagree with what Obama did, but in contrast to GWB and Trump and Reagan, there were next to none in his administration charged or convicted of any crimes.

            And sure Obama made some egregiously false statements, but in that regard, Trump is in a class by himself. The WaPo fact checker had to invent a new category of liar just for Trump.
            Last edited by kccd; 04-08-2021, 07:12 PM.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by kccd View Post
              "you can keep your doctor" was a prediction, not a statement of fact....
              Not the least bit surprised you bought that.

              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by kccd View Post
                And sure Obama made some egregiously false statements....
                And FINALLY something on which we agree!!!

                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by kccd View Post

                  "you can keep your doctor" was a prediction, not a statement of fact.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by kccd View Post

                    Your post does not provide the surrounding text. Disclosures can be long and dense and if these were buried in walls of text that are unlikely to be read, then that is certainly an issue.

                    The campaign also added another box at a later time point that automatically doubled the donation.
                    Mountain man posted the actual page. No wall of text.
                    Last edited by Sparko; 04-09-2021, 02:21 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      Not the least bit surprised you bought that.
                      How many people lost their doctors, and of those, how many were the direct result of Obamacare vs insurance company actions?

                      Here is what I could find:

                      Insurance companies -- to save money -- are quietly selling what are called "narrow networks." They sharply restrict the number of doctors and hospitals people can see. In some cases, people may be limited to 30 percent or less of the doctors and hospitals nearby.

                      Jerry Flanagan, lead attorney for the Consumer Watchdog group in California, says hundreds of thousands of people lost their doctors when insurers sold narrow networks without notice.

                      "Consumers here were told that networks are going to be the same as they were before Obamacare ... and those are flat out lies," Flanagan said.

                      The upside to narrow networks is the low cost, because the doctors in these networks have agreed to discounts. The savings to consumers averages 13 to 17 percent, according to the respected McKinsey consulting firm.
                      Karen Pollitz, a senior fellow at the Kaiser Family Foundation, told us: “It’s definitely the case (based on conversations with insurers and with providers) that insurers have decided to limit networks in some instances in order to price their health plans more competitively.” She continued: “It’s also definitely the case that some providers have declined to participate in some of the new health insurance networks, holding out for higher fees from some insurers in return for a promise to participate exclusively in their networks. This is market competition at work — not entirely transparent, unfortunately, so it’s not yet clear what the impact will be on patients.”
                      Obamacare is run through private sector insurance companies and those companies have a lot of leeway in how to structure their products.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                        Mountain man posted the actual page. No wall of text.
                        Yes, the New York Times clearly lied. Shocking, I know.
                        Last edited by Mountain Man; 04-10-2021, 05:25 PM.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by kccd View Post

                          "you can keep your doctor" was a prediction, not a statement of fact. And the fact is that Obamacare was run through private sector insurance companies that can change their preferred providers, so people can lose their doctors because of that. And besides the number who lost their doctors after the passage of Obamacare was miniscule.
                          It was lie of the year (or the equivalent) of all 3 fact checking agencies. When called on it, they tried to retroactively change what they claimed. They kept making the claim well after it was obvious it wouldn't be true.


                          Source: https://www.politifact.com/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/

                          The administration’s botched response

                          Initially, Obama and his team didn’t budge.

                          First, they tried to shift blame to insurers. "FACT: Nothing in #Obamacare forces people out of their health plans," said Valerie Jarrett, a top adviser to Obama, on Oct. 28.

                          PolitiFact rated her statement False. The restrictions on grandfathering were part of the law, and they were driving cancellations.

                          Then, they tried to change the subject. "It’s important to remember both before the ACA was ever even a gleam in anybody’s eye, let alone passed into law, that insurance companies were doing this all the time, especially in the individual market because it was lightly regulated and the incentives were so skewed," said White House Press Secretary Jay Carney.

                          But what really set everyone off was when Obama tried to rewrite his slogan, telling political supporters on Nov. 4, "Now, if you have or had one of these plans before the Affordable Care Act came into law, and you really liked that plan, what we said was you can keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law passed."

                          Pants on Fire! PolitiFact counted 37 times when he’d included no caveats, such as a high-profile speech to the American Medical Association in 2009: "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what."

                          Even Obama’s staunchest allies cried foul.

                          On Nov. 6, columnist Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune wrote that the public "was entitled to hear the unvarnished truth, not spin, from their president about what they were about to face. I don't feel good about calling out Obama's whopper, because I support most of his policies and programs. But in this instance, he would have to be delusional to think he was telling the truth."

                          The next day, Obama apologized during a lengthy interview with NBC News’ Chuck Todd.

                          "We weren’t as clear as we needed to be in terms of the changes that were taking place, and I want to do everything we can to make sure that people are finding themselves in a good position, a better position than they were before this law happened. And I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me," he said.

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          Source: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Whi9mJUjfscJ:[url

                          https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us][/url]The Pinocchio Test


                          The administration is defending this pledge with a rather slim reed — that there is nothing in the law that makes insurance companies force people out of plans they were enrolled in before the law passed. That explanation conveniently ignores the regulations written by the administration to implement the law. Moreover, it also ignores the fact that the purpose of the law was to bolster coverage and mandate a robust set of benefits, whether someone wanted to pay for it or not.

                          The president’s statements were sweeping and unequivocal — and made both before and after the bill became law. The White House now cites technicalities to avoid admitting that he went too far in his repeated pledge, which, after all, is one of the most famous statements of his presidency.

                          The president’s promise apparently came with a very large caveat: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan — if we deem it to be adequate.”
                          Four Pinocchios

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          Source: https://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/keeping-your-health-plan/

                          Sebelius went on to say that the “bottom line is that under the Affordable Care Act, if you like your doctor and plan, you can keep them.” But that still wouldn’t be true for many, and Obama glossed over those details in his speeches. The president made the sweeping promise, in one variation or another, while the Affordable Care Act was being debated in Congress in 2009. He said it again after he signed the bill into law in 2010. And he continued to say it after the Supreme Court ruled the law was constitutional in 2012.

                          Even the president now acknowledges that his promise went too far.

                          In an interview with Chuck Todd of NBC News on Nov. 7, Obama offered an apology to the many Americans who have been notified that they are, in fact, losing the health plans they previously had and wanted to keep.

                          “I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me,” Obama said. “We’ve got to work hard to make sure that they know we hear them and that we’re going to do everything we can to deal with folks who find themselves in a tough position as a consequence of this.”

                          Strangely, the White House linked to the apology on a health care Web page that carried the same promise he now says went too far.

                          © Copyright Original Source


                          Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 04-10-2021, 05:56 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by kccd View Post
                            How many people lost their doctors....
                            Not the least bit surprised you got totally snookered by this.

                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment

                            Related Threads

                            Collapse

                            Topics Statistics Last Post
                            Started by Gondwanaland, Today, 07:29 PM
                            0 responses
                            15 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Gondwanaland  
                            Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, Today, 08:17 AM
                            31 responses
                            155 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Ronson
                            by Ronson
                             
                            Started by CivilDiscourse, Today, 05:18 AM
                            17 responses
                            130 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Gondwanaland  
                            Started by Christian3, Yesterday, 01:13 PM
                            14 responses
                            66 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Starlight  
                            Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 12:40 PM
                            21 responses
                            158 views
                            1 like
                            Last Post rogue06
                            by rogue06
                             
                            Working...
                            X