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Vaccine Expert Warns Against Covid Program

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  • Vaccine Expert Warns Against Covid Program

    Twebbers and others, this message comes from a man whose credentials seem appropriate for making this message.
    There are many other medical specialists making the same arguments.
    The effort to push the covid shots seems to have taken on inappropriate momentum and needs to stop.

    Here is the open letter with the warning (I have tried to compensate for copying problems without adding new errors)...

    Geert Vanden Bossche, DMV, PhD, independent virologist and vaccine expert, formerly employed at
    GAVI and The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

    To all authorities, scientists and experts around the world, to whom this concerns: the entire world
    population.

    I am all but an antivaxxer. As a scientist I do not usually appeal to any platform of this kind to make a
    stand on vaccine-related topics. As a dedicated virologist and vaccine expert I only make an exception
    when health authorities allow vaccines to be administered in ways that threaten public health, most
    certainly when scientific evidence is being ignored. The present extremely critical situation forces me to
    spread this emergency call. As the unprecedented extent of human intervention in the Covid-19-
    pandemic is now at risk of resulting in a global catastrophe without equal, this call cannot sound loudly
    and strongly enough.


    As stated, I am not against vaccination. On the contrary, I can assure you that each of the current
    vaccines have been designed, developed and manufactured by brilliant and competent scientists.
    However, this type of prophylactic vaccines are completely inappropriate, and even highly dangerous,
    when used in mass vaccination campaigns during a viral pandemic. Vaccinologists, scientists and
    clinicians are blinded by the positive short-term effects in individual patents, but don’t seem to bother
    about the disastrous consequences for global health. Unless I am scientifically proven wrong, it is difficult
    to understand how current human interventions will prevent circulating variants from turning into a wild monster.



    Racing against the clock, I am completing my scientific manuscript, the publication of which is, unfortunately,
    likely to come too late given the ever increasing threat from rapidly spreading, highly
    infectious variants. This is why I decided to already post a summary of my findings as well as my keynote
    speech at the recent Vaccine Summit in Ohio on LinkedIn. Last Monday, I provided international health
    organizations, including the WHO, with my analysis of the current pandemic as based on scientifically
    informed insights in the immune biology of Covid-19. Given the level of emergency, I urged them to
    consider my concerns and to initiate a debate on the detrimental consequences of further ‘viral immune
    escape’. For those who are no experts in this field, I am attaching below a more accessible and
    comprehensible version of the science behind this insidious phenomenon.


    While there is no time to spare, I have not received any feedback thus far. Experts and politicians have
    remained silent while obviously still eager to talk about relaxing infection prevention rules and
    'springtime freedom'. My statements are based on nothing else but science. They shall only be
    contradicted by science. While one can barely make any incorrect scientific statements without being
    criticized by peers, it seems like the elite of scientists who are currently advising our world leaders prefer
    to stay silent. Sufficient scientific evidence has been brought to the table. Unfortunately, it remains
    untouched by those who have the power to act. How long can one ignore the problem when there is at
    present massive evidence that viral immune escape is now threatening humanity? We can hardly say we
    didn't know - or were not warned.

    In this agonizing letter I put all of my reputation and credibility at stake. I expect from you, guardians of
    mankind, at least the same. It is of utmost urgency. Do open the debate. By all means: turn the tide!
    --Page 2--


    PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY OF INTERNATIONAL CONCERN
    Why mass vaccination amidst a pandemic creates an irrepressible monster


    THE key question is: why does nobody seem to bother about viral immune escape? Let me try to explain
    this by means of a more easily understood phenomenon: Antimicrobial resistance. One can easily
    extrapolate this scourge to resistance to our self-made ‘antiviral antibiotics’. Indeed, antibodies (Abs)
    produced by our own immune system can be considered self-made antiviral antibiotics, regardless of
    whether they are part of our innate immune system (so-called ‘natural’ Abs’) or elicited in response to
    specific pathogens (resulting in so-called ‘acquired’ Abs). Natural Abs are not germ-specific whereas
    acquired Abs are specifically directed at the invading pathogen. At birth, our innate immune system is
    ‘unexperienced’ but well-established. It protects us from a multitude of pathogens, thereby preventing
    these pathogens from causing disease. As the innate immune system cannot remember the pathogens it
    encountered (innate immunity has no so-called ‘immunological memory’), we can only continue to rely
    on it provided we keep it ‘trained’ well enough. Training is achieved by regular exposure to a myriad of
    environmental agents, including pathogens. However, as we age, we will increasingly face situations
    where our innate immunity (often called ‘the first line of immune defense’) is not strong enough to halt
    the pathogen at the portal of entry (mostly mucosal barriers like respiratory or intestinal epithelia).
    When this happens, the immune system has to rely on more specialized effectors of our immune system
    (i.e., antigen-specific Abs and T cells) to fight the pathogen. So, as we grow up, we increasingly mount
    pathogen-specific immunity, including highly specific Abs. As those have stronger affinity for the
    pathogen (e.g., virus) and can reach high concentrations, they can quite easily outcompete our natural
    Abs for binding to the pathogen/virus. It is precisely this type of highly specific, high affinity Abs that
    current Covid-19 vaccines are inducing. Of course, the noble purpose of these Abs is to protect us against
    Covid-19. So, why then should there be a major concern using these vaccines to fight Covid-19?



    Well, similar to the rules applying to classical antimicrobial antibiotics, it is paramount that our self-made
    ‘antiviral antibiotics’ are made available in sufficient concentration and are tailored at the specific
    features of our enemy. This is why in case of bacterial disease it is critical to not only chose the right type
    of antibiotic (based on the results from an antibiogram) but to also take the antibiotic for long enough
    (according to the prescription). Failure to comply with these requirements is at risk of granting microbes
    a chance to survive and hence, may cause the disease to fare up. A very similar mechanism may also
    apply to viruses, especially to viruses that can easily and rapidly mutate (which is, for example, the case
    with Coronaviruses); when the pressure exerted by the army’s (read: population’s) immune defense
    starts to threaten viral replication and transmission, the virus will take on another coat so that it can no
    longer be easily recognized and, therefore, attacked by the host immune system. The virus is now able to
    escape immunity (so-called: ‘immune escape’). However, the virus can only rely on this strategy provided
    it still has room enough to replicate. Viruses, in contrast to the majority of bacteria, must rely on living
    host cells to replicate. This is why the occurrence of ‘escape mutants’ isn’t too worrisome as long as the
    likelihood for these variants to rapidly find another host is quite remote. However, that’s not particularly
    the case during a viral pandemic! During a pandemic, the virus is spreading all over the globe with many
    subjects shedding and transmitting the virus (even including asymptomatic ‘carriers’). The higher the
    viral load, the higher the likelihood for the virus to bump into subjects who haven’t been infected yet or
    who were infected but didn’t develop symptoms. Unless they are sufficiently protected by their innate
    immune defense (through natural Abs), they will catch Covid-19 disease as they cannot rely on other,
    i.e., acquired Abs. It has been extensively reported, indeed, that the increase in S (spike)-specific Abs in
    --Page 3--
    asymptomatically infected people is rather limited and only short-lived. Furthermore, these Abs have not
    achieved full maturity. The combination of viral infection on a background of suboptimal Ab maturity and
    concentration enables the virus to select mutations allowing it to escape the immune pressure. The
    selection of those mutations preferably occurs in the S protein as this is the viral protein that is
    responsible for viral infectiousness. As the selected mutations endow the virus with increased infectious
    capacity, it now becomes much easier for the virus to cause severe disease in infected subjects. The
    more people develop symptomatic disease, the better the virus can secure its propagation and
    perpetuation (people who get severe disease will shed more virus and for a longer period of time than
    asymptomatically infected subjects do). Unfortunately enough, the short-lived rise in S-specific Abs does,
    however, suffice to bypass people’s innate/natural Ab. Those are put out of business as their affinity for S
    is lower than the affinity of S-specific Abs. This is to say that with an increasing rate of infection in the
    population, the number of subjects who get infected while experiencing a momentary increase in S-specific
    Abs will steadily increase. Consequently, the number of subjects who get infected while
    experiencing a momentary decrease in their innate immunity will increase. As a result, a steadily
    increasing number of subjects will become more susceptible to getting severe disease instead of showing
    only mild symptoms (i.e., limited to the upper respiratory tract) or no symptoms at all. During a
    pandemic, especially youngsters will be affected by this evolution as their natural Abs are not yet largely
    suppressed by a panoply of ‘acquired’, antigen-specific Abs. Natural Abs, and natural immunity in
    general, play a critical role in protecting us from pathogens as they constitute our first line of immune
    defense. In contrast to acquired immunity, innate immune responses protect against a large spectrum of
    pathogens (so don’t compromise or sacrifice your innate immune defense!). Because natural Abs and
    innate immune cells recognize a diversified spectrum of foreign (i.e., non-self) agents (only some of
    which have pathogenic potential), it’s important, indeed, to keep it sufficiently exposed to environmental
    challenges. By keeping the innate immune system (which, unfortunately, has no memory!) TRAINED, we
    can much more easily resist germs which have real pathogenic potential. It has, for example, been
    reported and scientifically proven that exposure to other, quite harmless Coronaviruses causing a
    ‘common cold ’ can provide protection, although short-lived, against Covid-19 and its loyal henchmen
    (i.e., the more infectious variants).


    Suppression of innate immunity, especially in the younger age groups, can, therefore, become very
    problematic. There can be no doubt that lack of exposure due to stringent containment measures
    implemented as of the beginning of the pandemic has not been beneficial to keeping people’s innate
    immune system well trained. As if this was not already heavily compromising innate immune defense in
    this population segment, there comes yet another force into play that will dramatically enhance
    morbidity and mortality rates in the younger age groups: MASS VACCINATION of the ELDERLY. The more
    extensively the later age group will be vaccinated and hence, protected, the more the virus is forced to
    continue causing disease in younger age groups. This is only going to be possible provided it escapes to
    the S-specific Abs that are momentarily raised in previously asymptomatically infected subjects. If the
    virus manages to do so, it can benefit from the (momentarily) suppressed innate immunity, thereby
    causing disease in an increasing number of these subjects and ensuring its own propagation. Selecting
    targeted mutations in the S protein is, therefore, the way to go in order for the virus to enhance its
    infectiousness in candidates that are prone to getting the disease because of a transient weakness of
    their innate immune defense.


    But in the meantime, we’re also facing a huge problem in vaccinated people as they’re now more and
    more confronted with infectious variants displaying a type of S protein that is increasingly different from
    --Page 4--
    the S edition comprised with the vaccine (the later edition originates from the original, much less
    infectious strain at the beginning of the pandemic). The more variants become infectious (i.e., as a result
    of blocking access of the virus to the vaccinated segment of the population), the less vaccinal Abs will
    protect. Already now, lack of protection is leading to viral shedding and transmission in vaccine
    recipients who are exposed to these more infectious strains (which, by the way, increasingly dominate
    the field). This is how we are currently turning vaccinees into asymptomatic carriers shedding infectious
    variants.


    At some point, in a likely very near future, it’s going to become more profitable (in term of ‘return on
    selection investment’) for the virus to just add another few mutations (maybe just one or two) to the S
    protein of viral variants (already endowed with multiple mutations enhancing infectiousness) in an
    attempt to further strengthen its binding to the receptor (ACE-2) expressed on the surface of permissive
    epithelial cells. This will now allow the new variant to outcompete vaccinal Abs for binding to the ACE
    receptor. This is to say that at this stage, it would only take very few additional targeted mutations
    within the viral receptor-binding domain to fully resist S-specific ant-Covid-19 Abs, regardless whether
    the later are elicited by the vaccine or by natural infection. At that stage, the virus will, indeed, have
    managed to gain access to a huge reservoir of subjects who have now become highly susceptible to
    disease as their S-specific Abs have now become useless in terms of protection but still manage to
    provide for long-lived suppression of their innate immunity (i.e., natural infection, and especially
    vaccination, elicit relatively long-lived specific Ab titers). The susceptible reservoir comprises both,
    vaccinated people and those who’re left with sufficient S-specific Abs due to previous Covid-19 disease).
    So, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED for Covid-19 but a DISASTROUS SITUATION for all vaccinated subjects and
    Covid-19 seropositive people as they’ve now lost both, their acquired and innate immune defense
    against Covid-19 (while highly infectious strains are circulating!). That’s ‘one small step for the virus, one
    giant catastrophe for mankind’, which is to say that we’ll have whipped up the virus in the younger
    population up to a level that it now takes little effort for Covid-19 to transform into a highly infectious
    virus that completely ignores both the innate arm of our immune system as well as the
    adaptive/acquired one (regardless of whether the acquired Abs resulted from vaccination or natural
    infection). The effort for the virus is now becoming even more negligible given that many vaccine
    recipients are now exposed to highly infectious viral variants while having received only a single shot of
    the vaccine. Hence, they are endowed with Abs that have not yet acquired optimal functionality. There is
    no need to explain that this is just going to further enhance immune escape. Basically, we’ll very soon be
    confronted with a super-infectious virus that completely resists our most precious defense mechanism:
    The human immune system.


    From all of the above, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to imagine how the consequences of the
    extensive and erroneous human intervention in this pandemic are not going to wipe out large parts of
    our human population. One could only think of very few other strategies to achieve the same level of
    efficiency in turning a relatively harmless virus into a bioweapon of mass destruction.



    It’s certainly also worth mentioning that mutations in the S protein (i.e., exactly the same protein that is
    subject to selection of escape mutations) are known to enable Coronaviruses to cross species barriers.
    This is to say that the risk that vaccine-mediated immune escape could allow the virus to jump to other
    animal species, especially industrial livestock (e.g., pig and poultry farms), is not negligible. These species
    are already known to host several different Coronaviruses and are usually housed in farms with high
    stocking density. Similar to the situation with influenza virus, these species could than serve as an
    --page 5--
    additional reservoir for SARS-COVID-2 virus.
    As pathogens have co-evolved with the host immune system, natural pandemics of acute self-limiting
    viral infections have been shaped such as to take a toll on human lives that is not higher than strictly
    required. Due to human intervention, the course of this pandemic has been thoroughly disturbed as of
    the very beginning. Widespread and stringent infection prevention measures combined with mass
    vaccination campaigns using inadequate vaccines will undoubtedly lead to a situation where the
    pandemic is getting increasingly ‘out of control’.


    Paradoxically, the only intervention that could offer a perspective to end this pandemic (other than to let
    it run its disastrous course) is …VACCINATION. Of course, the type of vaccines to be used would be
    completely different of conventional vaccines in that they’re not inducing the usual suspects, i.e., B and T
    cells, but NK cells. There is, indeed, compelling scientific evidence that these cells play a key role in
    facilitating complete elimination of Covid-19 at an early stage of infection in asymptomatically infected
    subjects. NK cells are part of the cellular arm of our innate immune system and, alike natural Abs, they
    are capable of recognizing and attacking a broad and diversified spectrum of pathogenic agents. There is
    a sound scientific rationale to assume that it is possible to ‘prime’ NK cells in ways for them to recognize
    and kill Coronaviruses at large (include all their variants) at an early stage of infection. NK cells have
    increasingly been described to be endowed with the capacity to acquire immunological memory. By
    educating these cells in ways that enable them to durably recognize and target Coronavirus-infected
    cells, our immune system could be perfectly armed for a targeted attack to the universe of Coronaviruses
    prior to exposure. As NK cell-based immune defense provides sterilizing immunity and allows for broad-spectrum
    and fast protection, it is reasonable to assume that harnessing our innate immune cells is going
    to be the only type of human intervention left to halt the dangerous spread of highly infectious Covid-19
    variants.


    If we, human beings, are committed to perpetuating our species, we have no choice left but to eradicate
    these highly infectious viral variants. This will, indeed, require large vaccination campaigns. However, NK
    cell-based vaccines will primarily enable our natural immunity to be better prepared (memory!) and to
    induce herd immunity (which is exactly the opposite of what current Covid-19 vaccines do as those
    increasingly turn vaccine recipients into asymptomatic carriers who are shedding virus). So, there is not
    one second left for gears to be switched and to replace the current killer vaccines by life-saving vaccines.


    I am appealing to the WHO and all stakeholders involved, no matter their conviction, to immediately
    declare such action as THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY OF INTERNATIONAL
    CONCERN.


    Author: Geert Vanden Bossche, DVM, PhD (March 6, 2021)– https://www.linkedin.com/in/geertvandenbossche/
    Last edited by mikewhitney; 03-15-2021, 02:45 AM.

  • #2
    DVM? A Veterinarian?


    He is wrong. The vaccine works using our natural immune system (antibodies and T-Cells) exactly like if you were actually exposed to the virus. So if he is correct then there would never be any herd immunity because natural spread would also cause a "super virus" to evolve.

    Here is a rebuttal to him:



    How Worried Should We Be About the Variants?


    11 March 2021 / Updated 13 March 2021by Dr Michael Yeadon and Marc Girardot

    As the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic continues across the globe, many genetic modifications have started to appear in the virus. These are being sequenced, analysed1 and monitored by many scientists. This well known phenomenon occurs continuously for Influenza as well as for coronaviruses. Health authorities and mainstream media have been very wary of supposed heightened risk profiles of these new variants. They are also adamant about a potential risk of evasion from immunity, whether that immunity was acquired via infection or vaccination.

    Some evolutionary virologists consider that viruses ‘attenuate’, or evolve towards less virulent forms. Some feel that novel pharmaceutical2 and non-pharmaceutical interventions3 – or specific circumstances4 – could possibly disrupt this evolutionary process and favour a more severe variant or threaten acquired immunity.

    The recent downward trends5 in cases and in hospitalisations across the globe seem to indicate that the virus has probably not mutated in any way that would make it much more dangerous and that a healthy immune system is very capable of dealing with these new forms of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Indeed, patients have been shown to recover naturally in most instances just like they did from the original form of COVID-19.6 The paucity of confirmed re-infections with the virus, accompanied by clinical symptoms, despite hundreds of millions of infections over the last year,7 is consistent with a lack of ‘immune escape’.

    Acquired immunity is fundamentally based on the recognition of a large series of three-dimensionally shaped protein markers called ‘epitopes’. These markers are formed from a virus’s genetic code. When a virus mutates it can stop expressing some of these proteins, and, in principle, trump the immune arsenal specifically targeting these. And indeed, if all immunity against SARS-CoV-2 were based on one or two epitopes, and if those markers were to change, immunity would mechanically be broken.

    But SARS-CoV-2 is a large virus8 with approximately 30,000 RNA bases (10,000 amino acids). Currently, the greatest difference between any ‘mutant variant’ and the original Wuhan sequence is limited to 26 nucleotide mutations.9 The genomic diversity of SARS-CoV-2 in circulation on different continents is fairly uniform.10 We know that the mutation rate in SARS-CoV-2 is slower than other RNA viruses because it benefits from a proofreading enzyme which limits potentially lethal copying errors.11 To date, these mutations have caused changes in less than 0.3% of the entire virus sequence. All variants are therefore currently 99.7% similar to the original Wuhan viral sequence.

    To date, no robust scientific evidence proves that any of the variants identified are more transmissible or deadly than the original.12 By definition, variants are clinically identical. Once there is a clinical difference then a new ‘strain’ of virus has emerged. Prior knowledge of viral mutation shows they usually evolve to become less deadly and more transmissible.13 This optimises their chance of spreading, as dead hosts tend not to spread viruses, and very ill hosts have reduced mobility and thus limit contact with others.14

    Natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2 is gained in the immune system by the body ‘cutting up’ the virus into hundreds of pieces.15 Multiple pieces are used to develop a suitably diverse immune response to many parts of the virus. Specialised immune cells16 will launch an immune response if exposed to the same ‘learned’ viral fragment in the future. Prior immunity gained from the original SARS-CoV-2 should work perfectly well against any new ‘mutant variant’, given the 99.7% sequence similarity.17

    The La Jolla Institute for Immunology recently published a paper which is a tour de force: a comprehensive assessment of the role played by thousands of linear protein epitopes in the SARS-CoV-2 protein sequences18 in acquired immunity. Reassuringly, the human immune system uses several hundred of the theoretically possible protein epitopes. Each individual uses a diverse selection of at least 18 epitopes to form their antibody repertoire (humoral immunity)19,20 and a different, though overlapping, T cell repertoire targeting at minimum 30-40 epitopes (cellular immunity).21 This means that even if there are several changes in the virus’s RNA code and in its protein sequence, the majority of the epitopes will be unchanged. There is therefore no possibility that the human immune system will be fooled into regarding the variants as a new pathogen. Furthermore, even if a variant were to bypass some of the immune repertoire of an individual, this would be of no consequence for a population, due to the diversity of repertoires. The authors themselves conclude: “This analysis should allay concerns over the potential for SARS-CoV-2 to escape T cell recognition by mutation of a few key viral epitopes.”

    mRNA vaccines currently used for vaccination – Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna – present the immune system with a large repertoire of targets, if not quite as large as a natural immune response. This is even more true of more traditional vaccines22 – Russia’s Sputnik and China’s Sinovac – which present an even wider repertoire.23 Given the breadth of immunisation and the relative independence of these immune responses, we believe that both humoral and cellular immunities will remain effective, even if one or several key immunological targets are erased.

    Multiple confirming data points and experiments solidify this already robust scientific foundation: The prevalence of pre-existing immunity to SARS-CoV-2 found in multiple studies24,25,26 further validates our thinking, both for humoral immunity27,28 and cellular immunity.29 Many seem to have benefited from a form of immunity even though they had never met the actual virus, nor been vaccinated. These have gained their immunity from past epidemics and make up the large contingent of asymptomatics. The Tübingen University Hospital near Stuttgart, Germany found as much as 81% of its samples were carrying pre-existing specific T cells.30 Most likely, past common cold coronaviruses have – in effect – played an immunisation role against SARS-CoV-2. The same immunological mechanism has been proven to exist for influenza also.31

    Some are advocating the vaccination of people who have recovered from COVID-19. Natural immunisation being the ultimate form of vaccination, we see absolutely no scientific nor medical justification for such a procedure. Even past infections by other forms of common cold coronaviruses have been found to protect from SARS-CoV-2. Injecting a vaccine should never be considered a trivial event. The decision should be based on a well thought out risk-benefit analysis. There is absolutely no patient benefit in vaccinating an immune person, only risks and possible unnecessary downsides32 such as fever.

    The evidence above supports that immunity evasion – though a theoretical possibility – is very unlikely. Mutant variants, emerging overseas or domestically, are an inevitable biological reality once a virus is in the population. Closing international borders will not stop new mutations of the SARS-CoV-2 virus circulating in the population. It is a futile endeavour with no scientific basis.

    Furthermore, immunity evasion may not be the most pressing issue with regards to COVID-19 and vaccine effectiveness. Could vaccines be partly ineffective for other reasons? Indeed, vaccines are different from drugs in that their mode of action is indirect.33 Vaccines rely entirely on a functional immune system. However, those suffering from severe forms of COVID-19 have predominantly been shown to be either very old and/or very sick with a weakened immune system.34 A recent survey from Yale University highlighted that blood samples taken from severe COVID-19 patients were lacking dendritic cells – a fundamental trigger of immune response – by a factor of between two and four.35 A deficiency in these signalling cells would thus significantly delay the immune response, giving the virus the opportunity to replicate exponentially, and present the immune system with a radically different context: a propagated virus and inflammation disseminated throughout the body. A vaccine’s mode of action would be subject to the same delay. Although vaccines could be helpful for patients with mildly deficient immune systems, they would most likely not save very old patients with advanced immune senescence. Thus overconfidence in vaccine effectiveness for the very old could be a major risk, and mitigation treatments and immune boosting strategies should instead be contemplated.36

    Dr. Michael Yeadon
    Scientific Board member of Panda
    Expert in Allergy & Respiratory (A&R) Therapeutic/PhD in Biochemistry and Toxicology
    Former Chief Scientific Officer at Pfizer A&R unit/CEO and Founder of Ziarco
    25 years experience in Drug Discovery/40 Full Papers/63 Abstracts/two Books/six Patents


    Marc Girardot
    Member of Panda
    Senior Advisor in Biotech & Automotive/INSEAD MBA
    Advisor to an anti-Cancer therapeutic vaccine company/Ex-Global Lead of Cisco’s IBSG Automotive
    30 years of experience in Industry, High Tech and Biotech/two Patents


    https://lockdownsceptics.org/how-rob...ovid-immunity/



    also for more info on Dr. Bossche
    https://vaxopedia.org/2021/03/14/who...anden-bossche/

    summary, He claims to have invented a new vaccine technology using NK cells, which if you read his statement above, he is pushing in place of the COVID vaccines. This is nothing more than self-promotion of his invention which is completely unproven.
    Last edited by Sparko; 03-15-2021, 07:57 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      ...



      How Worried Should We Be About the Variants?


      11 March 2021 / Updated 13 March 2021by Dr Michael Yeadon and Marc Girardot
      . Could vaccines be partly ineffective for other reasons? Indeed, vaccines are different from drugs in that their mode of action is indirect.33 Vaccines rely entirely on a functional immune system. However, those suffering from severe forms of COVID-19 have predominantly been shown to be either very old and/or very sick with a weakened immune system.34 A recent survey from Yale University highlighted that blood samples taken from severe COVID-19 patients were lacking dendritic cells – a fundamental trigger of immune response – by a factor of between two and four.35 A deficiency in these signalling cells would thus significantly delay the immune response, giving the virus the opportunity to replicate exponentially, and present the immune system with a radically different context: a propagated virus and inflammation disseminated throughout the body. A vaccine’s mode of action would be subject to the same delay. Although vaccines could be helpful for patients with mildly deficient immune systems, they would most likely not save very old patients with advanced immune senescence. Thus overconfidence in vaccine effectiveness for the very old could be a major risk, and mitigation treatments and immune boosting strategies should instead be contemplated.36

      Dr. Michael Yeadon
      Scientific Board member of Panda
      Expert in Allergy & Respiratory (A&R) Therapeutic/PhD in Biochemistry and Toxicology
      Former Chief Scientific Officer at Pfizer A&R unit/CEO and Founder of Ziarco
      25 years experience in Drug Discovery/40 Full Papers/63 Abstracts/two Books/six Patents


      Marc Girardot
      Member of Panda
      Senior Advisor in Biotech & Automotive/INSEAD MBA
      Advisor to an anti-Cancer therapeutic vaccine company/Ex-Global Lead of Cisco’s IBSG Automotive
      30 years of experience in Industry, High Tech and Biotech/two Patents


      https://lockdownsceptics.org/how-rob...ovid-immunity/
      That last bit seems to argue for increased availability of therapeutics like HCQ, Ivermectin, Remdesivir (they've backpedaled quite a bit on that one, I think), etc.
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

      Beige Federalist.

      Nationalist Christian.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

      Justice for Matthew Perna!

      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
        Twebbers and others, this message comes from a man whose credentials seem appropriate for making this message.
        There are many other medical specialists making the same arguments.
        The effort to push the covid shots seems to have taken on inappropriate momentum and needs to stop.

        Here is the open letter with the warning (I have tried to compensate for copying problems without adding new errors)...

        Geert Vanden Bossche, DMV, PhD, independent virologist and vaccine expert, formerly employed at
        GAVI and The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

        To all authorities, scientists and experts around the world, to whom this concerns: the entire world
        population.

        I am all but an antivaxxer. As a scientist I do not usually appeal to any platform of this kind to make a
        stand on vaccine-related topics. As a dedicated virologist and vaccine expert I only make an exception
        when health authorities allow vaccines to be administered in ways that threaten public health, most
        certainly when scientific evidence is being ignored. The present extremely critical situation forces me to
        spread this emergency call. As the unprecedented extent of human intervention in the Covid-19-
        pandemic is now at risk of resulting in a global catastrophe without equal, this call cannot sound loudly
        and strongly enough.


        As stated, I am not against vaccination. On the contrary, I can assure you that each of the current
        vaccines have been designed, developed and manufactured by brilliant and competent scientists.
        However, this type of prophylactic vaccines are completely inappropriate, and even highly dangerous,
        when used in mass vaccination campaigns during a viral pandemic. Vaccinologists, scientists and
        clinicians are blinded by the positive short-term effects in individual patents, but don’t seem to bother
        about the disastrous consequences for global health. Unless I am scientifically proven wrong, it is difficult
        to understand how current human interventions will prevent circulating variants from turning into a wild monster.



        Racing against the clock, I am completing my scientific manuscript, the publication of which is, unfortunately,
        likely to come too late given the ever increasing threat from rapidly spreading, highly
        infectious variants. This is why I decided to already post a summary of my findings as well as my keynote
        speech at the recent Vaccine Summit in Ohio on LinkedIn. Last Monday, I provided international health
        organizations, including the WHO, with my analysis of the current pandemic as based on scientifically
        informed insights in the immune biology of Covid-19. Given the level of emergency, I urged them to
        consider my concerns and to initiate a debate on the detrimental consequences of further ‘viral immune
        escape’. For those who are no experts in this field, I am attaching below a more accessible and
        comprehensible version of the science behind this insidious phenomenon.


        While there is no time to spare, I have not received any feedback thus far. Experts and politicians have
        remained silent while obviously still eager to talk about relaxing infection prevention rules and
        'springtime freedom'. My statements are based on nothing else but science. They shall only be
        contradicted by science. While one can barely make any incorrect scientific statements without being
        criticized by peers, it seems like the elite of scientists who are currently advising our world leaders prefer
        to stay silent. Sufficient scientific evidence has been brought to the table. Unfortunately, it remains
        untouched by those who have the power to act. How long can one ignore the problem when there is at
        present massive evidence that viral immune escape is now threatening humanity? We can hardly say we
        didn't know - or were not warned.

        In this agonizing letter I put all of my reputation and credibility at stake. I expect from you, guardians of
        mankind, at least the same. It is of utmost urgency. Do open the debate. By all means: turn the tide!
        --Page 2--


        PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY OF INTERNATIONAL CONCERN
        Why mass vaccination amidst a pandemic creates an irrepressible monster


        THE key question is: why does nobody seem to bother about viral immune escape? Let me try to explain
        this by means of a more easily understood phenomenon: Antimicrobial resistance. One can easily
        extrapolate this scourge to resistance to our self-made ‘antiviral antibiotics’. Indeed, antibodies (Abs)
        produced by our own immune system can be considered self-made antiviral antibiotics, regardless of
        whether they are part of our innate immune system (so-called ‘natural’ Abs’) or elicited in response to
        specific pathogens (resulting in so-called ‘acquired’ Abs). Natural Abs are not germ-specific whereas
        acquired Abs are specifically directed at the invading pathogen. At birth, our innate immune system is
        ‘unexperienced’ but well-established. It protects us from a multitude of pathogens, thereby preventing
        these pathogens from causing disease. As the innate immune system cannot remember the pathogens it
        encountered (innate immunity has no so-called ‘immunological memory’), we can only continue to rely
        on it provided we keep it ‘trained’ well enough. Training is achieved by regular exposure to a myriad of
        environmental agents, including pathogens. However, as we age, we will increasingly face situations
        where our innate immunity (often called ‘the first line of immune defense’) is not strong enough to halt
        the pathogen at the portal of entry (mostly mucosal barriers like respiratory or intestinal epithelia).
        When this happens, the immune system has to rely on more specialized effectors of our immune system
        (i.e., antigen-specific Abs and T cells) to fight the pathogen. So, as we grow up, we increasingly mount
        pathogen-specific immunity, including highly specific Abs. As those have stronger affinity for the
        pathogen (e.g., virus) and can reach high concentrations, they can quite easily outcompete our natural
        Abs for binding to the pathogen/virus. It is precisely this type of highly specific, high affinity Abs that
        current Covid-19 vaccines are inducing. Of course, the noble purpose of these Abs is to protect us against
        Covid-19. So, why then should there be a major concern using these vaccines to fight Covid-19?



        Well, similar to the rules applying to classical antimicrobial antibiotics, it is paramount that our self-made
        ‘antiviral antibiotics’ are made available in sufficient concentration and are tailored at the specific
        features of our enemy. This is why in case of bacterial disease it is critical to not only chose the right type
        of antibiotic (based on the results from an antibiogram) but to also take the antibiotic for long enough
        (according to the prescription). Failure to comply with these requirements is at risk of granting microbes
        a chance to survive and hence, may cause the disease to fare up. A very similar mechanism may also
        apply to viruses, especially to viruses that can easily and rapidly mutate (which is, for example, the case
        with Coronaviruses); when the pressure exerted by the army’s (read: population’s) immune defense
        starts to threaten viral replication and transmission, the virus will take on another coat so that it can no
        longer be easily recognized and, therefore, attacked by the host immune system. The virus is now able to
        escape immunity (so-called: ‘immune escape’). However, the virus can only rely on this strategy provided
        it still has room enough to replicate. Viruses, in contrast to the majority of bacteria, must rely on living
        host cells to replicate. This is why the occurrence of ‘escape mutants’ isn’t too worrisome as long as the
        likelihood for these variants to rapidly find another host is quite remote. However, that’s not particularly
        the case during a viral pandemic! During a pandemic, the virus is spreading all over the globe with many
        subjects shedding and transmitting the virus (even including asymptomatic ‘carriers’). The higher the
        viral load, the higher the likelihood for the virus to bump into subjects who haven’t been infected yet or
        who were infected but didn’t develop symptoms. Unless they are sufficiently protected by their innate
        immune defense (through natural Abs), they will catch Covid-19 disease as they cannot rely on other,
        i.e., acquired Abs. It has been extensively reported, indeed, that the increase in S (spike)-specific Abs in
        --Page 3--
        asymptomatically infected people is rather limited and only short-lived. Furthermore, these Abs have not
        achieved full maturity. The combination of viral infection on a background of suboptimal Ab maturity and
        concentration enables the virus to select mutations allowing it to escape the immune pressure. The
        selection of those mutations preferably occurs in the S protein as this is the viral protein that is
        responsible for viral infectiousness. As the selected mutations endow the virus with increased infectious
        capacity, it now becomes much easier for the virus to cause severe disease in infected subjects. The
        more people develop symptomatic disease, the better the virus can secure its propagation and
        perpetuation (people who get severe disease will shed more virus and for a longer period of time than
        asymptomatically infected subjects do). Unfortunately enough, the short-lived rise in S-specific Abs does,
        however, suffice to bypass people’s innate/natural Ab. Those are put out of business as their affinity for S
        is lower than the affinity of S-specific Abs. This is to say that with an increasing rate of infection in the
        population, the number of subjects who get infected while experiencing a momentary increase in S-specific
        Abs will steadily increase. Consequently, the number of subjects who get infected while
        experiencing a momentary decrease in their innate immunity will increase. As a result, a steadily
        increasing number of subjects will become more susceptible to getting severe disease instead of showing
        only mild symptoms (i.e., limited to the upper respiratory tract) or no symptoms at all. During a
        pandemic, especially youngsters will be affected by this evolution as their natural Abs are not yet largely
        suppressed by a panoply of ‘acquired’, antigen-specific Abs. Natural Abs, and natural immunity in
        general, play a critical role in protecting us from pathogens as they constitute our first line of immune
        defense. In contrast to acquired immunity, innate immune responses protect against a large spectrum of
        pathogens (so don’t compromise or sacrifice your innate immune defense!). Because natural Abs and
        innate immune cells recognize a diversified spectrum of foreign (i.e., non-self) agents (only some of
        which have pathogenic potential), it’s important, indeed, to keep it sufficiently exposed to environmental
        challenges. By keeping the innate immune system (which, unfortunately, has no memory!) TRAINED, we
        can much more easily resist germs which have real pathogenic potential. It has, for example, been
        reported and scientifically proven that exposure to other, quite harmless Coronaviruses causing a
        ‘common cold ’ can provide protection, although short-lived, against Covid-19 and its loyal henchmen
        (i.e., the more infectious variants).


        Suppression of innate immunity, especially in the younger age groups, can, therefore, become very
        problematic. There can be no doubt that lack of exposure due to stringent containment measures
        implemented as of the beginning of the pandemic has not been beneficial to keeping people’s innate
        immune system well trained. As if this was not already heavily compromising innate immune defense in
        this population segment, there comes yet another force into play that will dramatically enhance
        morbidity and mortality rates in the younger age groups: MASS VACCINATION of the ELDERLY. The more
        extensively the later age group will be vaccinated and hence, protected, the more the virus is forced to
        continue causing disease in younger age groups. This is only going to be possible provided it escapes to
        the S-specific Abs that are momentarily raised in previously asymptomatically infected subjects. If the
        virus manages to do so, it can benefit from the (momentarily) suppressed innate immunity, thereby
        causing disease in an increasing number of these subjects and ensuring its own propagation. Selecting
        targeted mutations in the S protein is, therefore, the way to go in order for the virus to enhance its
        infectiousness in candidates that are prone to getting the disease because of a transient weakness of
        their innate immune defense.


        But in the meantime, we’re also facing a huge problem in vaccinated people as they’re now more and
        more confronted with infectious variants displaying a type of S protein that is increasingly different from
        --Page 4--
        the S edition comprised with the vaccine (the later edition originates from the original, much less
        infectious strain at the beginning of the pandemic). The more variants become infectious (i.e., as a result
        of blocking access of the virus to the vaccinated segment of the population), the less vaccinal Abs will
        protect. Already now, lack of protection is leading to viral shedding and transmission in vaccine
        recipients who are exposed to these more infectious strains (which, by the way, increasingly dominate
        the field). This is how we are currently turning vaccinees into asymptomatic carriers shedding infectious
        variants.


        At some point, in a likely very near future, it’s going to become more profitable (in term of ‘return on
        selection investment’) for the virus to just add another few mutations (maybe just one or two) to the S
        protein of viral variants (already endowed with multiple mutations enhancing infectiousness) in an
        attempt to further strengthen its binding to the receptor (ACE-2) expressed on the surface of permissive
        epithelial cells. This will now allow the new variant to outcompete vaccinal Abs for binding to the ACE
        receptor. This is to say that at this stage, it would only take very few additional targeted mutations
        within the viral receptor-binding domain to fully resist S-specific ant-Covid-19 Abs, regardless whether
        the later are elicited by the vaccine or by natural infection. At that stage, the virus will, indeed, have
        managed to gain access to a huge reservoir of subjects who have now become highly susceptible to
        disease as their S-specific Abs have now become useless in terms of protection but still manage to
        provide for long-lived suppression of their innate immunity (i.e., natural infection, and especially
        vaccination, elicit relatively long-lived specific Ab titers). The susceptible reservoir comprises both,
        vaccinated people and those who’re left with sufficient S-specific Abs due to previous Covid-19 disease).
        So, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED for Covid-19 but a DISASTROUS SITUATION for all vaccinated subjects and
        Covid-19 seropositive people as they’ve now lost both, their acquired and innate immune defense
        against Covid-19 (while highly infectious strains are circulating!). That’s ‘one small step for the virus, one
        giant catastrophe for mankind’, which is to say that we’ll have whipped up the virus in the younger
        population up to a level that it now takes little effort for Covid-19 to transform into a highly infectious
        virus that completely ignores both the innate arm of our immune system as well as the
        adaptive/acquired one (regardless of whether the acquired Abs resulted from vaccination or natural
        infection). The effort for the virus is now becoming even more negligible given that many vaccine
        recipients are now exposed to highly infectious viral variants while having received only a single shot of
        the vaccine. Hence, they are endowed with Abs that have not yet acquired optimal functionality. There is
        no need to explain that this is just going to further enhance immune escape. Basically, we’ll very soon be
        confronted with a super-infectious virus that completely resists our most precious defense mechanism:
        The human immune system.


        From all of the above, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to imagine how the consequences of the
        extensive and erroneous human intervention in this pandemic are not going to wipe out large parts of
        our human population. One could only think of very few other strategies to achieve the same level of
        efficiency in turning a relatively harmless virus into a bioweapon of mass destruction.



        It’s certainly also worth mentioning that mutations in the S protein (i.e., exactly the same protein that is
        subject to selection of escape mutations) are known to enable Coronaviruses to cross species barriers.
        This is to say that the risk that vaccine-mediated immune escape could allow the virus to jump to other
        animal species, especially industrial livestock (e.g., pig and poultry farms), is not negligible. These species
        are already known to host several different Coronaviruses and are usually housed in farms with high
        stocking density. Similar to the situation with influenza virus, these species could than serve as an
        --page 5--
        additional reservoir for SARS-COVID-2 virus.
        As pathogens have co-evolved with the host immune system, natural pandemics of acute self-limiting
        viral infections have been shaped such as to take a toll on human lives that is not higher than strictly
        required. Due to human intervention, the course of this pandemic has been thoroughly disturbed as of
        the very beginning. Widespread and stringent infection prevention measures combined with mass
        vaccination campaigns using inadequate vaccines will undoubtedly lead to a situation where the
        pandemic is getting increasingly ‘out of control’.


        Paradoxically, the only intervention that could offer a perspective to end this pandemic (other than to let
        it run its disastrous course) is …VACCINATION. Of course, the type of vaccines to be used would be
        completely different of conventional vaccines in that they’re not inducing the usual suspects, i.e., B and T
        cells, but NK cells. There is, indeed, compelling scientific evidence that these cells play a key role in
        facilitating complete elimination of Covid-19 at an early stage of infection in asymptomatically infected
        subjects. NK cells are part of the cellular arm of our innate immune system and, alike natural Abs, they
        are capable of recognizing and attacking a broad and diversified spectrum of pathogenic agents. There is
        a sound scientific rationale to assume that it is possible to ‘prime’ NK cells in ways for them to recognize
        and kill Coronaviruses at large (include all their variants) at an early stage of infection. NK cells have
        increasingly been described to be endowed with the capacity to acquire immunological memory. By
        educating these cells in ways that enable them to durably recognize and target Coronavirus-infected
        cells, our immune system could be perfectly armed for a targeted attack to the universe of Coronaviruses
        prior to exposure. As NK cell-based immune defense provides sterilizing immunity and allows for broad-spectrum
        and fast protection, it is reasonable to assume that harnessing our innate immune cells is going
        to be the only type of human intervention left to halt the dangerous spread of highly infectious Covid-19
        variants.


        If we, human beings, are committed to perpetuating our species, we have no choice left but to eradicate
        these highly infectious viral variants. This will, indeed, require large vaccination campaigns. However, NK
        cell-based vaccines will primarily enable our natural immunity to be better prepared (memory!) and to
        induce herd immunity (which is exactly the opposite of what current Covid-19 vaccines do as those
        increasingly turn vaccine recipients into asymptomatic carriers who are shedding virus). So, there is not
        one second left for gears to be switched and to replace the current killer vaccines by life-saving vaccines.


        I am appealing to the WHO and all stakeholders involved, no matter their conviction, to immediately
        declare such action as THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY OF INTERNATIONAL
        CONCERN.


        Author: Geert Vanden Bossche, DVM, PhD (March 6, 2021)– https://www.linkedin.com/in/geertvandenbossche/
        Someone claiming to be an expert in virology should have a publication record to back that up.

        Scientific publications in the biomedical fields are archived in PubMed which is maintained by NCBI (National Center for Biotechnology Information) which is part of the National Library of Medicine.

        A search for this "expert" finds this one paper, in German, from 1987.

        [Equine herpesvirus 1 (EHV-1) infection in the horse: neurologic symptoms in a standard bred mare with acute fatal course. Molecular characterization of the brain isolates and pathologic correlates].
        Ludwig H, Rudolph R, Chowdhury SI, van den Bossche G, Wintzer HJ, Krauser K.Berl Munch Tierarztl Wochenschr. 1987 May 1;100(5):147-52.PMID: 3038071 German. No abstract available.

        It is common for people skeptical of science and the consensus views of scientists and scientific organizations to seek out people on the fringe who have science degrees and talk a good game. This was certainly the case when the tobacco companies worked against restrictions and warnings on tobacco use, or when the fossil fuel companies support skeptics of climate change, but the comparison that first hit me was with respect to HIV-1. There were many who wanted to blame AIDs on things like lifestyle choices rather than an infectious agent, and they found an actual expert to champion their cause. Peter Duesberg is an actual virologist with a long publication record and a good reputation who decided to act as a skeptic not only of the fact that HIV-1 is the causative agent of AIDs, but also that no retroviruses are pathogenic, none of which is true.

        Duesberg is ignored and this is apparently also true of van den Bossche. Bossche says he has presented his concerns but has not gotten any feedback. Not true.

        Yes, there are covid viral mutants that are now circulating, but testing has shown that at least some of the available vaccines are effective against some of the new variants. Also, vaccines prevent the virus from circulating in the wider population, thus limiting its opportunities to mutate.

        This guy is arguing that the current vaccines should be scrapped in favor of vaccines that stimulate NK (natural killer) cells, but other vaccines, like the adenovirus-based anti-Ebola vaccine directed against the surface protein of that virus induces antibodies against that protein, and those antibodies induce NK cells. Note that the J&J vaccine also uses a similar adenovirus platform.

        It is now recognized that NK cells have long-term memory, and researchers are now developing a next generation of vaccines that would directly target the cell-based immune system to complement vaccines that primarily induce antibodies. Bossche does not seem to be directly involved in any of this as far as I can tell.

        Here is a discussion of killer T cells in immune defense and vaccine development:

        https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00367-7

        As to vanden Bossche, check this out:

        https://vaxopedia.org/2021/03/14/who...anden-bossche/

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

          That last bit seems to argue for increased availability of therapeutics like HCQ, Ivermectin, Remdesivir (they've backpedaled quite a bit on that one, I think), etc.
          How do you reach that conclusion? Nothing was mentioned about those mitigation treatments and immune boosters, and certainly no medical expert is recommending HCQ or Ivermectin.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by kccd View Post
            How do you reach that conclusion? Nothing was mentioned about those mitigation treatments and immune boosters, and certainly no medical expert is recommending HCQ or Ivermectin.
            Kccd, you really should recognize that when you make sweeping statements like "no medical expert is recommending...." -- that all that needs to happen to counter that is to show even ONE medical expert...

            Medical experts tout new govt-blacklisted ‘miracle drug’ to treat COVID

            December 17, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) — As COVID-19 vaccine doses roll out across the world, top doctors increasingly tout a generic drug called ivermectin as a newly recognized potential “cure” for the virus.

            Ivermectin, a Nobel Prize–winning anti-parasitic agent, has been the subject of dozens of studies and anecdotal success stories since it was found to reduce COVID-19 in a laboratory earlier this year. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has refused emergency authorization of ivermectin to treat the novel coronavirus, stating for months that “[m]ore testing is needed.”

            Nevertheless, several medical experts testified to the benefits of the drug for COVID-19 patients at a hearing held by the Senate Homeland Security Committee last week. In an impassioned speech, Dr. Pierre Kory, an intensive care specialist from Wisconsin, spoke to what he called “the miraculous effectiveness of ivermectin.”


            So now you will be forced to either decry the source of the article because it's conservative - or to dispute the credentials of the medical expert cited.

            Either way, it negates your overly broad statement.

            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kccd View Post

              How do you reach that conclusion? Nothing was mentioned about those mitigation treatments and immune boosters, and certainly no medical expert is recommending HCQ or Ivermectin.
              As CP said, it's best to avoid broad generalizations. You previously made such an assertion about HCQ, and I immediately responded by citing Dr. Harvey Risch. He's an MD, PhD, and Professor of Epidemiology at Yale. Dr. Qanta Ahmed, a pulmonologist who was actively working with patients during the height of the pandemic, also repeatedly recommended HCQ.

              Pulmonologist Dr. Paul Marik is one recommending Ivermectin.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Federalist.

              Nationalist Christian.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

              Justice for Matthew Perna!

              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                Kccd, you really should recognize that when you make sweeping statements like "no medical expert is recommending...." -- that all that needs to happen to counter that is to show even ONE medical expert...

                Medical experts tout new govt-blacklisted ‘miracle drug’ to treat COVID

                December 17, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) — As COVID-19 vaccine doses roll out across the world, top doctors increasingly tout a generic drug called ivermectin as a newly recognized potential “cure” for the virus.

                Ivermectin, a Nobel Prize–winning anti-parasitic agent, has been the subject of dozens of studies and anecdotal success stories since it was found to reduce COVID-19 in a laboratory earlier this year. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has refused emergency authorization of ivermectin to treat the novel coronavirus, stating for months that “[m]ore testing is needed.”

                Nevertheless, several medical experts testified to the benefits of the drug for COVID-19 patients at a hearing held by the Senate Homeland Security Committee last week. In an impassioned speech, Dr. Pierre Kory, an intensive care specialist from Wisconsin, spoke to what he called “the miraculous effectiveness of ivermectin.”


                So now you will be forced to either decry the source of the article because it's conservative - or to dispute the credentials of the medical expert cited.

                Either way, it negates your overly broad statement.
                We have different definitions of "medical expert". Someone who is an expert in pulmonary diseases can be an ignoramus when it comes to infectious diseases. The "expert" cited in your quote, Kory, was forced to resign from several positions for making unsupported medical claims. Does not matter how impassioned he was in the speech he gave. Does not matter that he is an MD. It seems he found he could easily convince the easily convincible. What matters in science is data.

                It is always possible to find someone with medical credentials to make what are essentially bogus claims, like for ivermectin and HCQ. But that does not make these people equivalent to actual experts who specialize in infectious diseases and back up their recommendations with actual data. If he had performed clinical trials that support his claims, OK. That is what actual experts do, but your quote does not link to those kinds of studies for these agents.

                The FDA has the responsibility to ensure drug safety and to make sure that patients are not falsely encouraged to use ineffective drugs rather than seeking more appropriate care. Sure, Ivermectin is effective against some parasites, but coronavirus is not remotely like those parasites, and there is no evidence or reason to think this agent would work to treat covid patients.

                There will always be snake oil salesman, and their customers.

                But yes, I take your point. The fact is that scientists are people, and can have personal failings that blind them to facts. Science is self-correcting, and the way to bet is not to trust the impassioned speaker on conservative sites who bucks the "elites" but will not present his data for peer review.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                  As CP said, it's best to avoid broad generalizations. You previously made such an assertion about HCQ, and I immediately responded by citing Dr. Harvey Risch. He's an MD, PhD, and Professor of Epidemiology at Yale. Dr. Qanta Ahmed, a pulmonologist who was actively working with patients during the height of the pandemic, also repeatedly recommended HCQ.

                  Pulmonologist Dr. Paul Marik is one recommending Ivermectin.
                  I suggest you take a closer look at the "experts" you tout.

                  https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/...reat-covid-19/

                  Risch, for example, is a cancer epidemiologist, not an infectious diseases epidemiologist - very different fields.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OK, watch this...

                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    So now you will be forced to either decry the source of the article because it's conservative - or to dispute the credentials of the medical expert cited.
                    And, as I predicted....

                    Originally posted by kccd View Post
                    I suggest you take a closer look at the "experts" you tout.
                    GOSH, you make this 'predicting stuff' is easy!!!
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kccd View Post

                      We have different definitions of "medical expert". Someone who is an expert in pulmonary diseases can be an ignoramus when it comes to infectious diseases. The "expert" cited in your quote, Kory, was forced to resign from several positions for making unsupported medical claims. Does not matter how impassioned he was in the speech he gave. Does not matter that he is an MD. It seems he found he could easily convince the easily convincible. What matters in science is data.

                      It is always possible to find someone with medical credentials to make what are essentially bogus claims, like for ivermectin and HCQ. But that does not make these people equivalent to actual experts who specialize in infectious diseases and back up their recommendations with actual data. If he had performed clinical trials that support his claims, OK. That is what actual experts do, but your quote does not link to those kinds of studies for these agents.

                      The FDA has the responsibility to ensure drug safety and to make sure that patients are not falsely encouraged to use ineffective drugs rather than seeking more appropriate care. Sure, Ivermectin is effective against some parasites, but coronavirus is not remotely like those parasites, and there is no evidence or reason to think this agent would work to treat covid patients.

                      There will always be snake oil salesman, and their customers.

                      But yes, I take your point. The fact is that scientists are people, and can have personal failings that blind them to facts. Science is self-correcting, and the way to bet is not to trust the impassioned speaker on conservative sites who bucks the "elites" but will not present his data for peer review.
                      Where is your science against use of hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin and Vitamin D? I was still waiting for this from our earlier discussions. You so far have not shown studies to backup your animosity toward the studied cures. So far you have been a denier of science instead of a supplier of studies.
                      Last edited by mikewhitney; 03-15-2021, 02:11 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kccd View Post
                        We have different definitions of "medical expert". ...
                        I know - if they agree with your pre-conceived notions, they are acceptable "medical experts".

                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kccd View Post
                          But yes, I take your point.
                          Wow, who saw THAT coming?

                          The fact is that scientists are people, and can have personal failings that blind them to facts. Science is self-correcting, and the way to bet is not to trust the impassioned speaker on conservative sites who bucks the "elites" but will not present his data for peer review.
                          So, while you claim to be a 'scientist', you seem to be rather broad in your sweeping generalizations. Nearly every lengthy post of yours contains false assumptions, overly broad statements, guesses ---- there is nothing about your posting pattern that supports the notion that you are, in any real sense, a "scientist".

                          And prejudiced! You don't want to trust "impassioned speaker on conservative sites", but you gobble up anything the "elites" say.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            DVM? A Veterinarian?


                            He is wrong. The vaccine works using our natural immune system (antibodies and T-Cells) exactly like if you were actually exposed to the virus. So if he is correct then there would never be any herd immunity because natural spread would also cause a "super virus" to evolve.

                            Here is a rebuttal to him:

                            ...


                            also for more info on Dr. Bossche
                            https://vaxopedia.org/2021/03/14/who...anden-bossche/

                            summary, He claims to have invented a new vaccine technology using NK cells, which if you read his statement above, he is pushing in place of the COVID vaccines. This is nothing more than self-promotion of his invention which is completely unproven.
                            I suspect that learning something from vaxopedia is like getting a PhD based solely on reading wikipedia pages.

                            It is necessary to gain views from different sources. Each source (such as Bossche or Yeadon) provide a different background to understand the potential benefits and pitfalls of the technologies behind the covid shots. Both of these men have been in the industry and therefore deserve attention. Yeadon has been strongly concerned about the present blind vaccination of the population. Yeadon has also expressed concern that the covid shots could affect the syncytin-1 in placentas, which would lead to infertility or miscarriages among pregnant women. We have seen indications of this potential in VAERS and social media posts.
                            Last edited by mikewhitney; 03-15-2021, 04:50 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              OK, watch this...



                              And, as I predicted....



                              GOSH, you make this 'predicting stuff' is easy!!!
                              If you are going to seek out "experts" who agree with your positions, then of course questions will be asked about the legitimacy of their expertise. What is wrong with doing that?

                              If you had a belly ache, you would not go to a brain surgeon for treatment as opposed to a gastroenterologist. Or would you, because, after all, they are both doctors, right?

                              Comment

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