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Alex Jones and the First Amendment...

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  • Alex Jones and the First Amendment...

    This could be an interesting case....

    NEWTOWN — Extremist Alex Jones has appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, arguing that his “blood on the streets” rant against an attorney representing families who lost loved ones in the Sandy Hook shooting was protected free speech.

    Norm Pattis, the high-profile New Haven attorney, calls the sanction Jones received in trial court after his 2019 rant an “unprecedented attack on freedom of speech” and a “direct, frontal assault on the First Amendment itself” because what Jones said did not constitute a legal threat.

    “(Jones’) views on the judicial process and the conduct of its various participants are core political speech protected by the First Amendment regardless of whether he expresses them with Shakespearean eloquence or with quintessential American vim and vigor,” Pattis wrote in the appeal. “Courts are not above the Constitution. They can transgress on constitutional liberties just as readily as the legislative or executive branches, particularly when they regulate the speech of those subject to their jurisdiction.”

    Jones’ appeal to the highest court in the country aims to overturn a decision by state Superior Court
    Judge Barbara Bellis to deny Jones what he considers a key line of defense in a defamation lawsuit brought against him by an FBI agent and six families who lost loved ones in the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting.

    https://www.registercitizen.com/loca...t-15998230.php
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    This could be an interesting case....


    Jones is an evil person who also promulgated the claim that the Sandy Hook shooting was a false flag operation and that there were no dead children and the parents were crisis actors. Some of those parents have been hounded for years by threats to the point that one had to go into hiding.

    There are limits to Constitutional rights and it seems to me that Jones crossed that line.

    Comment


    • #3
      I favor maximal civil liberties, so even evil speech should be protected.
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

      Beige Nationalist.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kccd View Post

        Jones is an evil person who also promulgated the claim that the Sandy Hook shooting was a false flag operation and that there were no dead children and the parents were crisis actors. Some of those parents have been hounded for years by threats to the point that one had to go into hiding.

        There are limits to Constitutional rights and it seems to me that Jones crossed that line.
        Listen, this happened in my state, I used to live about a half a mile from that school. And I know a woman who had a son in the class room next to the one where the kids were killed. So Jones was full of crap but I doubt if the Supreme Court will uphold the sanctions.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
          I favor maximal civil liberties, so even evil speech should be protected.
          Words can be weaponized, and can be more damaging than physical weapons.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post

            Listen, this happened in my state, I used to live about a half a mile from that school. And I know a woman who had a son in the class room next to the one where the kids were killed. So Jones was full of crap but I doubt if the Supreme Court will uphold the sanctions.
            "full of crap" is a very mild rebuke for the damage he did to those families and that community.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kccd View Post

              Words can be weaponized, and can be more damaging than physical weapons.
              No, you have it wrong. Silence is violence.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by kccd View Post

                Words can be weaponized, and can be more damaging than physical weapons.
                The answer to free speech that you don't like is more free speech, not censorship. If someone makes an actual legal threat then sure, take them to account legally.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                  No, you have it wrong. Silence is violence.
                  What is this supposed to mean?

                  Speaking out against injustice is clearly important, but is not weaponized language.

                  Lying about a horrific event adds to the pain of those involved and induces others to harass and even threaten those involved. Such speech should be subject to criminal or civil penalties.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kccd View Post

                    What is this supposed to mean?

                    Speaking out against injustice is clearly important, but is not weaponized language.

                    Lying about a horrific event adds to the pain of those involved and induces others to harass and even threaten those involved. Such speech should be subject to criminal or civil penalties.
                    You mean like all the democrat 9/11 truthers?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                      You mean like all the democrat 9/11 truthers?
                      Whataboutism.

                      The term "9/11 truther" covers a lot of territory, and includes people who believe 9/11 was an inside job caused by the govt as well as people who point out that GWB was warned in advance and did nothing. In any case, these truthers are not attacking the victims as Alex Jones did, although some right wingers like Glenn Beck certainly did attack the 9/11 victim families.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kccd View Post

                        Words can be weaponized, and can be more damaging than physical weapons.
                        I completely disagree. Nutjobs will take inspiration wherever they can excuse their actions. Manson claimed inspiration from the White Album. Are you suggesting that be banned just in case someone else takes similar inspiration?
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kccd View Post

                          Whataboutism.

                          The term "9/11 truther" covers a lot of territory, and includes people who believe 9/11 was an inside job caused by the govt as well as people who point out that GWB was warned in advance and did nothing. In any case, these truthers are not attacking the victims as Alex Jones did, although some right wingers like Glenn Beck certainly did attack the 9/11 victim families.
                          You forget about the conspiracy theories that were that the people were moved off of the aircraft. There were attacks.
                          However, even if you neglect that, it doesn't mean that they didn't cause harm to the victims families. After all, dragging out the tragedy through conspiracies is hateful.

                          But, lets go further, what about those who lied in ferguson and helped contribute to the vast amounts of harm done through the riots. Do we charge them?

                          Where do we draw the line?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kccd View Post

                            What is this supposed to mean?

                            Speaking out against injustice is clearly important, but is not weaponized language.

                            Lying about a horrific event adds to the pain of those involved and induces others to harass and even threaten those involved. Such speech should be subject to criminal or civil penalties.
                            Again, we have laws against libel, slander and harassment. But to limit free speech because you don't like it or you think it is false leads to many problems. 1. Who becomes the arbiter of "Truth?" 2. What happens if those same people decide what YOU say should be restricted?

                            There will always be conspiracy theories, cults, and just outright liars out there. If you try to outlaw their speech, you just end up with them going underground. Much better to be out in the open where we can see what they are up to. And we can deal with their speech with counter speech, debate, and if they break the law, like inciting riots, or causing someone direct harm, we can deal with that with the laws he have for such things.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by kccd View Post

                              "full of crap" is a very mild rebuke for the damage he did to those families and that community.
                              So the left has been calling Trump supporters Nazis and White Supremacist - should that language be verboten?
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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