Have any of you gotten a vaccine?

[Mountain Man]

As I pointed out earlier, there is data to support the efficacy of mask wearing. When half the counties in Kansas mandated masks, that half saw a decrease in cases and the other half saw an increase.

[Dr. Aaron Carroll, a professor at Indiana University School of Medicine,] cautions that this was not a randomized, controlled study and there could have been other factors at play (such as more physical distancing in social situations and fewer large gatherings) in the counties that were enforcing masks.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...as-study-finds

[Stoic]

we have had great changes in deaths reported in nursing homes for people who have been vaccinated -- where no deaths happened at the nursing homes in 2020 but suddenly happened with the covid shots. Often this is reported as people getting covid-19 coincidental with getting the experimental covid shots. You can decide whether the covid shots are causing the deaths or whether sudden coincidental covid-19 outbreaks just happen in these instances. Either way, the outcome is still deadly.

We're talking about whether covid-19 is caused by the virus SARS-CoV-2. The vaccines were designed to cause one's cells to produce a piece of the spike protein from SARS-CoV-2.

If something other than SARS-CoV-2 is causing people to get extremely ill with covid-19, why is it that those who are vaccinated are not falling extremely ill with covid-19, while those who are not vaccinated are still falling extremely ill with covid-19?

The standard explanation is that one's immune system encounters the pieces of that spike protein, and starts making antibodies for it. Then, when it encounters the actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, those antibodies keep one from falling extremely ill with covid-19.

I'm looking forward to hearing your better explanation.

[Cerebrum123]

"Extra" tentacles?

This is what he has already.

[kccd]

[Dr. Aaron Carroll, a professor at Indiana University School of Medicine,] cautions that this was not a randomized, controlled study and there could have been other factors at play (such as more physical distancing in social situations and fewer large gatherings) in the counties that were enforcing masks.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...as-study-finds

OK, but there is no evidence of that sort, and that possibility does not mean that these county differences are unrelated to the mask usage.

[Mountain Man]

OK, but there is no evidence of that sort, and that possibility does not mean that these county differences are unrelated to the mask usage.

[Stoic]

They did rush it. Pharmaceutical trials typical take years and even decades. It would not be possible to rush a vaccine to market in a matter of months without taking many, many shortcuts along the way.

Normally, pharmaceutical companies proceed pretty slowly, in order to minimize financial risk. With the government taking away that risk, they were able to move much faster. They were also able to take advantage of many years of research into coronaviruses and mRNA vaccines. There were also plenty of volunteers for the phase 3 trials, which meant that the recruitment process went much faster.

By running the three phases in parallel, the only limit to how fast the vaccines could be tested was the duration of the phase 3 trial. And that was determined by how long it took people getting the placebo to be significantly more likely to get sick than those getting the vaccine. And given how effective the vaccines turned out to be, most of that time was spent waiting for enough people in the placebo group to get sick.

If you can document any testing shortcut that was taken, I'd like to know about it.

[Diogenes]

Normally, pharmaceutical companies proceed pretty slowly, in order to minimize financial risk. With the government taking away that risk, they were able to move much faster. They were also able to take advantage of many years of research into coronaviruses and mRNA vaccines. There were also plenty of volunteers for the phase 3 trials, which meant that the recruitment process went much faster.

By running the three phases in parallel, the only limit to how fast the vaccines could be tested was the duration of the phase 3 trial. And that was determined by how long it took people getting the placebo to be significantly more likely to get sick than those getting the vaccine. And given how effective the vaccines turned out to be, most of that time was spent waiting for enough people in the placebo group to get sick.

If you can document any testing shortcut that was taken, I'd like to know about it.

From what I've seen on clinicaltrials.gov, neither the Pfizer nor Moderna have actually completed the studies. In the Pfizer study, as of this report from 31 Dec 2020, only 170 out of 43,448 actually contracted COVID. While the placebo group is 162 of that, I doubt Pfizer could control variables of disease transmission external to the study.

I linked the trials here.

[NorrinRadd]

You are confusing Fox (known intra-company as "Big Fox") with Fox News. Completely separate branches. Possibly the only direct overlap is the program Christ Wallace hosts on Sundays. "Big Fox" is the home of, e.g., "The Simpsons" and "Family Guy" -- hardly promulgators of conservative ideals.

As a brief addendum to this, my local Fox affiliate partners with WPXI, which is the local NBC affiliate, for news and weather.

[kccd]

I am old enough to qualify but have not been able to get an appointment. I have registered at the state and county websites and... nothing, except a few times I got an acknowledgement that I registered.

I gather that some day I will get notifications that certain sites have vaccines, but I would have to log on quickly to get an appointment before they are all gone.

I think this is a poorly run system in my area, but at least I can stay safe by staying at home and working remotely.
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What about the rest of you? Is it easier to get vaccines in your area?

What a difference a day makes!

This afternoon I got an email from the largest hospital/medical provider in the state. I happened to see one of their doctors last year and I was in their system. They are distributing vaccines and offered me an appointment and I jumped at the chance. I was able to make an appointment for tomorrow morning. I will have to travel about 45 minutes because the closer sites were already booked, but I am totally fine with that.

I was literally jumping for joy when I got this offer.

[NorrinRadd]

My best friend, age 60, works in small home for mentally challenged adults (and occasionally near-adult teens). She declined the vax, even foregoing a substantial financial incentive to get it. (It's normal for her to decline such things. She never gets the annual flu vax. She does not discourage others, but she eschews them for herself.) For the past few weeks, the Wu-WHO Flu has been stomping through the house. Three of the four residents are down, and two of the staff, leaving her to cover multiple shifts mostly solo. (She's had two tests, both negative.)

Her sister and BIL (both 65+) have no plans to get the vax.

Her son (40) and DIL (about 35) have no plans to get the vax.

[NorrinRadd]

What a difference a day makes!

This afternoon I got an email from the largest hospital/medical provider in the state. I happened to see one of their doctors last year and I was in their system. They are distributing vaccines and offered me an appointment and I jumped at the chance. I was able to make an appointment for tomorrow morning. I will have to travel about 45 minutes because the closer sites were already booked, but I am totally fine with that.

I was literally jumping for joy when I got this offer.

Good for you. (Seriously.) Keep us in the loop.

[mikewhitney]

We're talking about whether covid-19 is caused by the virus SARS-CoV-2. The vaccines were designed to cause one's cells to produce a piece of the spike protein from SARS-CoV-2.

If something other than SARS-CoV-2 is causing people to get extremely ill with covid-19, why is it that those who are vaccinated are not falling extremely ill with covid-19, while those who are not vaccinated are still falling extremely ill with covid-19?

The standard explanation is that one's immune system encounters the pieces of that spike protein, and starts making antibodies for it. Then, when it encounters the actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, those antibodies keep one from falling extremely ill with covid-19.

I'm looking forward to hearing your better explanation.

Where is your data source for these claims? The UK could have fewer covid deaths by removing the process of counting every death within 28 days of a positive test as a covid death. All the things I mentioned so far make the counting process very vague. But we do know there have been people reporting unusual numbers of deaths in care facilities -- that were not happening in 2020. These are coincidental with the experimental covid shots. France stopped using a the covid shots on people over 65 due to concerns of the safety of covid shots.

[Stoic]

Where is your data source for these claims?

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

mRNA can most easily be described as instructions for the cell on how to make a piece of the “spike protein” that is unique to SARS-CoV-2. Since only part of the protein is made, it does not do any harm to the person vaccinated but it is antigenic.

After the piece of the spike protein is made, the cell breaks down the mRNA strand and disposes of them using enzymes in the cell. It is important to note that the mRNA strand never enters the cell’s nucleus or affects genetic material. This information helps counter misinformation about how mRNA vaccines alter or modify someone’s genetic makeup.

Once displayed on the cell surface, the protein or antigen causes the immune system to begin producing antibodies and activating T-cells to fight off what it thinks is an infection. These antibodies are specific to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which means the immune system is primed to protect against future infection.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: https://www.vox.com/22273502/covid-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-johnson-astrazeneca-efficacy-deaths

No one who got two doses in clinical trials for the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines has been hospitalized or died, and the same holds true for the new vaccines from Johnson & Johnson, Oxford/AstraZeneca, and Novavax(which haven’t yet been approved in the US). Each of the vaccines has demonstrated very high protection against severe Covid-19 in trials.

© Copyright Original Source

France stopped using a the covid shots on people over 65 due to concerns of the safety of covid shots.

That was only partly true originally, and now it's just false.

France stopped using the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine on people over 65 because it hadn't been demonstrated to be effective. But now there is data showing that it is effective in older people, so they've reversed course.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pan...tizens-over-65

[mikewhitney]

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

mRNA can most easily be described as instructions for the cell on how to make a piece of the “spike protein” that is unique to SARS-CoV-2. Since only part of the protein is made, it does not do any harm to the person vaccinated but it is antigenic.

After the piece of the spike protein is made, the cell breaks down the mRNA strand and disposes of them using enzymes in the cell. It is important to note that the mRNA strand never enters the cell’s nucleus or affects genetic material. This information helps counter misinformation about how mRNA vaccines alter or modify someone’s genetic makeup.

Once displayed on the cell surface, the protein or antigen causes the immune system to begin producing antibodies and activating T-cells to fight off what it thinks is an infection. These antibodies are specific to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which means the immune system is primed to protect against future infection.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: https://www.vox.com/22273502/covid-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-johnson-astrazeneca-efficacy-deaths

No one who got two doses in clinical trials for the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines has been hospitalized or died, and the same holds true for the new vaccines from Johnson & Johnson, Oxford/AstraZeneca, and Novavax(which haven’t yet been approved in the US). Each of the vaccines has demonstrated very high protection against severe Covid-19 in trials.

© Copyright Original Source

That was only partly true originally, and now it's just false.

France stopped using the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine on people over 65 because it hadn't been demonstrated to be effective. But now there is data showing that it is effective in older people, so they've reversed course.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pan...tizens-over-65

The claims about safety are nonsense. there are about 500 deaths reported to VAERS in the two months of this year. Since this is the official reporting system for the US vaccination program, the information is readily verified. There are also reports and testimony of multitudes of nursing home deaths after the vaccinations. I'm not sure why those are not counted The Pfizer trial determined a 95% effective rate based on reaching a threshold of 170 people to evaluate its effectiveness. This is based on very shallow grounds of identifying who has symptoms. Also, the PCR test used in the Pfizer study used 45 cycles of magnification -- which creates 97% false positives. Plus there were about 6 deaths in the Pfizer study -- some were of people in the placebo group but some were of the injected group. (But I do not know if these were before the 2nd injection -- which was sort of the weasel words used in the vox article.)

The vox article also speaks of the Israel results -- but the paper for the Israel study had several inaccuracies which were pointed out at

Source: http://www.nakim.org/israel-forums/a.htm?t=270812

On February 11 2021 Ynet (the most known Israeli News website) published a confused and confusing article entitled "Vaccination efficiency data in Israel, and its rapid effects on the young".

Our reanalyses of these data explain why during the massive vaccination project initiated mid-December 2020 during a confinement, daily new confirmed COVID-19 cases failed to decrease as they do during confinements, and, more importantly, why numbers of serious, critical and death cases increased during that period that covered at least one month. From mid-December to mid-February (two months), 2337 among all Israeli 5351 official COVID-deaths occurred.Our analyses indicate orders of magnitude increases in deaths rates during the 5-week long vaccination process, as compared to the unvaccinated and those after completing the vaccination process. Presumably, asymptomatic cases before vaccination, and those infected shortly after the 1st dose, tend to develop graver symptoms than those unvaccinated.
The Ynet article is organised in an exciting way and uses data provided in an erroneous way by the Ministry of Health. It is unclear whether this was intentional to prove the vaccine's efficiency or if this was done erroneously because the provided data were misunderstood.Note that in Israel, all vaccines are from Pfizer.

© Copyright Original Source

i want to go through more of this guy's analysis to check the accuracy of it. But he identifies many problems with the official study. It is not a surprise that an official study would be inaccurate. We have had very bad science behind the PCR test and in studies on hydroxychloroquine and other studies. (Several papers had to be withdrawn from major medical journals.)

[Roy]

You seem to have pleasure in mocking people who have studied the issues of this covid fiasco. Your way of life seems so simplistic or naive.

If you have science to contribute, then go ahead. But you have contributed nothing so far. If you want to share media opinions, you are just exercising a deadly level of laziness. I would assume if research has led to my ignorance, then you must have some research to prove otherwise.

Apparently you're too stupid or too lazy (or both) to follow links, because you didn't find this.