Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Dumb Down All Our Kids...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

    Gee Dio, I wonder why only not even a third applied

    Well, Dio, It could have something to do with:



    But to be on the safe side, let's not consider individual choicesand blame racism instead.
    So you're saying that Black and Hispanic kids are too lazy to apply for the program?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Stoic View Post

      So you're saying that Black and Hispanic kids are too lazy to apply for the program?
      Better terms would be uninterested, or not enthusiastic, or peer pressured not to participate...
      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Stoic View Post

        So you're saying that Black and Hispanic kids are too lazy to apply for the program?
        Were there not white kids who chose not to apply? If an individual doesn't want to do the extra work no matter what their race, that's their business. That was one possible reason. They could simply be uninterested in the advanced curricula. We don't know the makeup of the individuals who received the invitation or the reason why individuals chose not to apply. The justification for stopping the program was racial composition. They're depriving future students the advanced curricula because the equal opportunity doesn't have the racial statistics they want. I feel bad for the kids, despite race, who wanted the program but will now be deprived of it because of ideology.

        What I find interesting is that Whites and Asians were group together and not given separately.
        “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

        -Ghandi (Disputed)

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by seanD View Post

          Better terms would be uninterested, or not enthusiastic, or peer pressured not to participate...
          Better terms would be "individual kids" as their race is unimportant.
          “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

          -Ghandi (Disputed)

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by kccd View Post

            I am appalled by this.

            My own son started in our county math and science magnet program in 4th grade. He had to go to schools outside our district for the rest of elementary school, middle school and high school. This was perfect for him. He finished the normal "advanced" high school math curriculum as a freshman in high school which enabled him to take all sorts of advanced classes in math and also in physics. He went to the top engineering university in the US. This program was highly competitive and some kids, not prepared for this level of competition, dropped out. Rather than setting racial quotas or terminating such programs, the effort should be made to identify talented kids early, in all schools, and give them the more advanced challenges they need.

            I also do not think special programs should only be geared to the high-achieving students. There should also be special resources for struggling students, handicapped students, and for kids with special talents in music or athletics, etc.
            This was the beauty of the old one-room schoolhouse --- the advanced students helped and encouraged the struggling students.
            That also happened in the Christian School in which I served - the advanced students got extra credit for helping the struggling students.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by seer View Post

              Vouchers!
              AMEN!!! Let the parents decide to send their students to the commie-run* public schools, or the schools that are actually educating young people.


              *yeah, I'm being facetious, but only a tiny bit
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                So you're saying that Black and Hispanic kids are too lazy to apply for the program?
                I think they're so bummed out by public school the way its run that they have little to no interest in college, and little to no motivation to go.

                I really think we should get back to vocational education in high school, and encourage trade schools for those who don't specifically need college for their chosen vocation.



                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #23
                  If participation was driven by students applying, then I don't see any discrimination going on.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    AMEN!!! Let the parents decide to send their students to the commie-run* public schools, or the schools that are actually educating young people.


                    *yeah, I'm being facetious, but only a tiny bit

                    This bit from Al Shanker, president of the United Federation of Teachers and then the American Federation of Teachers, in 1990

                    It is time to admit that public education operates like a planned economy. It's a bureaucratic system where everybody's role is spelled out in advance, and there are few incentives for innovation and productivity. It's not a surprise when a school system doesn't improve. It more resembles a Communist economy than our own market economy.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                      Were there not white kids who chose not to apply? If an individual doesn't want to do the extra work no matter what their race, that's their business. That was one possible reason. They could simply be uninterested in the advanced curricula. We don't know the makeup of the individuals who received the invitation or the reason why individuals chose not to apply. The justification for stopping the program was racial composition. They're depriving future students the advanced curricula because the equal opportunity doesn't have the racial statistics they want. I feel bad for the kids, despite race, who wanted the program but will now be deprived of it because of ideology.

                      What I find interesting is that Whites and Asians were group together and not given separately.
                      This again reminds me of something that the former editor of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Cynthia Tucker used to frequently bring up. Tucker, who is black and quite liberal, wrote in several columns about how both she and her sister were regularly teased by their friends and classmates for "acting white" when they were growing up. What she meant by that was simply doing their homework and speaking proper English -- things their mother insisted upon.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        If participation was driven by students applying, then I don't see any discrimination going on.
                        You see the same sort of nonsense about national parks and campgrounds. Because blacks don't visit them at anywhere the same frequency as whites they have been called racist.

                        Source: America's national parks face existential crisis over race


                        As millions of Americans escape home quarantine to the great outdoors this summer, they'll venture into parks, campgrounds and forest lands that remain stubborn bastions of self-segregation.

                        "The outdoors and public lands suffer from the same systemic racism that the rest of our society does," said Joel Pannell, associate director of the Sierra Club, which is leading an effort to boost diversity in the wilderness and access to natural spaces.

                        New government data, shared first with ABC News, shows the country's premier outdoor spaces -- the 419 national parks -- remain overwhelmingly white. Just 23% of visitors to the parks were people of color, the National Park Service found in its most recent 10-year survey; 77% were white. Minorities make up 42% of the U.S. population.

                        "That tells me that we've got a lot of work to do," said David Vela, acting director of the National Park Service.

                        The career park administrator, appointed by President Donald Trump to the post in 2017, is the first Latino to lead the agency.



                        Source

                        © Copyright Original Source







                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          This again reminds me of something that the former editor of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Cynthia Tucker used to frequently bring up. Tucker, who is black and quite liberal, wrote in several columns about how both she and her sister were regularly teased by their friends and classmates for "acting white" when they were growing up. What she meant by that was simply doing their homework and speaking proper English -- things their mother insisted upon.
                          The passive racism while accusing others of being racist really "grinds my gears". If liberals want to be paternally racist, that's fine, I have no problem, that's their business; but to have the gall to call equality of opportunity racist.....
                          Last edited by Diogenes; 03-02-2021, 11:50 AM. Reason: needed more emotion
                          “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

                          -Ghandi (Disputed)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Go into any inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach kids to learn. They know that parents have to parent, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white.”

                            Senator Barack Obama, 2004 Democratic National Convention Keynote Address
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Go into any inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach kids to learn. They know that parents have to parent, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white.”

                              Senator Barack Obama, 2004 Democratic National Convention Keynote Address
                              Ouch.
                              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by kccd View Post

                                We do not know how many of the 453 students who were invited were minorities.

                                It actually seems like a fair admissions process - you take a test, and those getting a certain score are subject to a lottery.

                                Where the unfairness comes in is in the substandard resources and preparation of kids in schools in minority neighborhoods who are at a disadvantage in taking that test.
                                This starts as a process analysis problem to identify where the disparity comes from.

                                Test -> Lottery -> Letters -> Application ->Enrollment

                                Where the disparity comes into the process is where the focus should be.

                                If it appears in test results, you have a systemic issue you need to address in overall achievement, resources, etc. This requires intervention, but the program should survive for those who qualify.

                                If it appears in the lottery, you have a real problem. It's unlikely to have happened by chance, and suggests someone in the administration is discriminating. Here, I would shut the program down, fire who needs to be fired, and look at restarting it only after appropriate safeguards have been put into place.

                                If it appears in the letters phase, see the previous step.

                                If it appears in the application phase, you have a different problem. Here, you have self selection and a perception problem. Outreach needs to be done, and find out WHY there's a disparity in those applying. Why are black's and hispanics not applying to your program? What are their concerns, how can you get more engagement. You may need to adjust your program, but you shouldn't cancel it as it, in and of itself is not a problem.

                                From the numbers provided, this isn't an enrollment issue. The numbers don't change enough for the disparity to have appeared at this stage. However, if it did appear, it would be a similar issue to the last step.

                                There's two steps here where you'd have a mustache twirling villain involved. One step (most likely) where you have systemic disparities that need to be addressed. And two steps where you have a perception/engagement issue that has to be addressed.



                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Juvenal, Today, 09:21 AM
                                3 responses
                                40 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by CivilDiscourse, Today, 05:42 AM
                                8 responses
                                62 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by Gondwanaland, Yesterday, 07:29 PM
                                3 responses
                                118 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post NorrinRadd  
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, Yesterday, 08:17 AM
                                34 responses
                                253 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post siam
                                by siam
                                 
                                Started by CivilDiscourse, Yesterday, 05:18 AM
                                21 responses
                                145 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Working...
                                X