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California bill would fine stores for having separate sections for Boys and Girls.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    Does a child model need to be in the advert?
    To encourage a parent to see their child having fun and making the parent more likely to buy the item.


    However, there is still an emphasis on gender stereotyping in both toys and children's clothes.
    Kids are not the ones buying the toys and companies design toys and children's clothes to be bought. Companies react to buying trends. It's all about the money for companies, not ideological investment in culture wars.
    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

    -Ghandi (Disputed)

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      On the subject of children and gender. If anyone is interested this two part documentary from 2017 and available on Youtube [at least on Youtube over here] is well worth watching.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN5R2LWhTrY

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp9Z26YgIrA
      I'm sceptical to the scientific rigour of the experiment with toys is show. Rhesus and vervet monkeys have been shown to have different toy preferences by sex.

      Also, girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) exhibit behavioral masculinization.

      I would be against multi-occupancy unisex bathrooms in general for the privacy and hygiene of both sexes. I doubt a young girl wants to have to navigate her first (or any) period in school in a unisex bathroom.

      The strength test has a huge caveat of the children being prepubescent. The kids at that age (or US liberals) don't understand is that the context of males being typically stronger than females is due to puberty. The "Made to be underpaid" perpetuates the myth of the pay gap. Body shaming isn't limited to girls. Pushing gender stereotypes on children isn't limited to pushing "traditional" stereotypes as demonstrated by Leah McLaren saying "I'm going to turn the little alphabet belcher into a proud princess whether he likes it or not."
      “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

      -Ghandi (Disputed)

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        Does a child model need to be in the advert?

        However, there is still an emphasis on gender stereotyping in both toys and children's clothes.


        Some types of toys and activities tend to draw more boys than girls and vice versa. The actor Alan Alda was in a PBS series several years ago where part of it consisted of examining humans developing from infancy, and one of the things observed was the differences between boys and girls even at extremely young ages -- long before any social conditioning could have any effect. The one I remember the best was the recreating the study that found that boys are far more likely to try to scale and cross barriers designed to keep babies in or away from areas than girls are.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

          Kids are not the ones buying the toys and companies design toys and children's clothes to be bought.
          You will be telling us all next what bears do in the woods.

          Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
          Companies react to buying trends.
          Really? is all marketing and advertising simply a reaction to what customers want?
          Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
          It's all about the money for companies, not ideological investment in culture wars.
          Hence the alarming popularity some years ago for girls as young as six or seven to wear thongs.

          "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post


            Some types of toys and activities tend to draw more boys than girls and vice versa. The actor Alan Alda was in a PBS series several years ago where part of it consisted of examining humans developing from infancy, and one of the things observed was the differences between boys and girls even at extremely young ages -- long before any social conditioning could have any effect. The one I remember the best was the recreating the study that found that boys are far more likely to try to scale and cross barriers designed to keep babies in or away from areas than girls are.
            Oh you missed out the boy of colour playing at being the check-out operative. Could you not find an advert?
            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
              You will be telling us all next what bears do in the woods.
              If you are so inclined to ask, I will.

              I assume there's a lot of Jazz clubs in the woods as, from what I hear, bears are very good at producing scat.

              Really? is all marketing and advertising simply a reaction to what customers want?
              If people will buy it, companies will produce it.




              “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

              -Ghandi (Disputed)

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                I'm sceptical to the scientific rigour of the experiment with toys is show. Rhesus and vervet monkeys have been shown to have different toy preferences by sex.

                Also, girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) exhibit behavioral masculinization
                Those two papers are interesting but do not precisely relate to the premise of the documentary which was concerned with how children learn certain behaviours and attitudes from their environment and the cultural stereotyping of their specific sex.


                Within the first three minutes of episode one Abdelmoneim notes how the teacher [Graham Andre] uses different words for boys [“mate”] and girls [“love”] and how when this is pointed out to him Andre is totally unaware of his language choices. The head-teacher comments on how the children have very set views on what they should and can do based on societal attitudes towards their respective sexes, even though as we later find out some of their home backgrounds do not reflect those stereotypical gender divisions [for example at least one child’s father cooks]. The children are also introduced to adults whose jobs do not conform to gender stereotyping [the female mechanic and the female magician, the male make-up artist and the male dancer].

                Unlike the paper by Hassett et al, Abdelmoneim’s experiment with the babies was not specific to the children’s choices. Abdelmoneim was showing how adults unconsciously react to babies depending on what sex the adult believes the child to be and proffer toys deemed gender appropriate.

                It would certainly have been very interesting to have replicated the conditions detailed in that paper and videoed various sets of baby boys and girls deciding which toys to select, as did the monkeys. However, we cannot know with any certainty why male and female monkeys chose each of those specific toys nor how those monkeys perceived those respective objects.

                Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
                I would be against multi-occupancy unisex bathrooms in general for the privacy and hygiene of both sexes.
                That is a matter of opinion, although I would point out that most homes have unisex bathrooms.


                I have never had an issue with unisex public bathrooms. We all have to defecate and urinate. In my experience all such unisex facilities have solid cubicles [i.e. floor to ceiling sides] and the urinals are usually at one end either behind a partition or around a corner away from both the cubicles and the hand-basins.

                Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
                I doubt a young girl wants to have to navigate her first (or any) period in school in a unisex bathroom.

                Where does embarrassment about menstruation [or defecation, or urination] arise? Is it innate? Or is it learned? I have never witnessed a very young toddler automatically express embarrassment for urinating or defecating in the “wrong place”. Have you?

                Allocating sites for the deposit of faecal matter makes sanitary sense but performing the deed in private is probably quite recent. Gaining a position as Groom of the Stool was much sought after by ambitious courtiers in previous centuries.

                As for menstruation this again, is a perfectly natural event. We would hope a young girl would not be embarrassed by a fit of sneezing or the hiccoughs, so why should she feel any sensitivity over her first menses? However, we know within societies that historically are culturally patriarchal, menstruation is surrounded by deeply laid and often negative taboos.

                Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
                The strength test has a huge caveat of the children being prepubescent. The kids at that age (or US liberals) don't understand is that the context of males being typically stronger than females is due to puberty.
                Again, puberty is not strictly relevant to the test of strength in which the children [seven year olds] took part in episode one of the documentary. That was also about the children’s perceptions of what they believed they could and could not do. We saw the temper tantrum of the "alpha" boy who missed the target and the delight and surprise of the girl who hit it.


                Perhaps the only way to really ascertain if there are indeed sex specific behaviours would be to put a group of newborns into a setting without any contact with other living beings [AI could provide all necessary survival needs] and see how they grew up. However, any such experiment would be deemed completely unethical.
                Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 02-27-2021, 09:44 AM. Reason: one "as" too many
                "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                  If people will buy it, companies will produce it.
                  But what comes first? The product or the desire to purchase that particular product?
                  "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    Oh you missed out the boy of colour playing at being the check-out operative. Could you not find an advert?
                    Oh. The. Horror. Th..the the...

                    How will anyone ever be able to sleep tonight?


                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      But what comes first? The product or the desire to purchase that particular product?
                      I would say the product as a company can introduce a "new" and "edgy" product to see if people like it and buy it. Companies once upon a time said pink is boys and blue is for girls. De Beers pushed the diamond narrative and has a monopoly on them.
                      “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

                      -Ghandi (Disputed)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Oh. The. Horror. Th..the the...

                        How will anyone ever be able to sleep tonight?
                        Would it not have been simpler to acknowledge you could locate an advert?
                        "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Oh. The. Horror. Th..the the...

                          How will anyone ever be able to sleep tonight?
                          You should colourise that, and make the manatee resemble OMB.
                          “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

                          -Ghandi (Disputed)

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                            I would say the product as a company can introduce a "new" and "edgy" product to see if people like it and buy it. Companies once upon a time said pink is boys and blue is for girls.
                            Do not forget advertising and marketing which use psychology and which pander to deep rooted cultural stereotypes.
                            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              Would it not have been simpler to acknowledge you could locate an advert?
                              Should read: Would it not have been simpler to acknowledge you could not locate an advert?
                              "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                                You should colourise that, and make the manatee resemble OMB.
                                There is a colorized version, but altering images is beyond my pay grade (I'm a rogue, we appropriate not create)


                                huge.jpg

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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